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Author Topic: Navy marine Corp Mars ends September 30 2015  (Read 124553 times)
N3ZH
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Posts: 38




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« on: May 12, 2015, 05:05:40 PM »

It is official

All Navy Marine Corp Mars members were informed this evening and were encouraged to transfer to Army Mars or Air Force Mars.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 05:12:45 PM by N3ZH » Logged
KB5PQL
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2015, 07:36:38 PM »

I came here to just make sure that's what I read...It's confirmed then...  Cry


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NT0A
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Posts: 116




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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 08:09:46 PM »

Just got the message.

What a waste.
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N3ZH
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2015, 05:22:35 AM »

I am going to transfer to AF MARS.

I used to be in Army MARS but left when all personal comments were forbidden. The 15 to 30 seconds of personal comments per person during a net is the difference between something enjoyable and something boring.

Army MARS has done far more changes than just prohibiting personal comments. Over the past few years Army membership numbers have plummeted from over 5000 members to under 1000 members including those outside the USA. Dropout rates among new members is high. When  membership dropped in half, Army didn't care nor change. When Army membership dropped to one quarter, Army didn't care. There are several characteristics of Army MARS that Navy MARS members admired, but Army MARS appears to be dying by dwindling membership, and the leadership appears to not care.

The only negative I saw with AF MARS was extremely boring nets. Personal comments prohibited and the perceived need to keep nets going when there is nothing to say. They comprised of 50 minutes or more of silence with  periodic radio checks for net control to determine that the others are still there.

I will probably quit AF MARS in the future due to boredom, but will give it a try.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 05:24:44 AM by N3ZH » Logged
KB9ZB
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Posts: 111




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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2015, 06:24:34 PM »

I just got the message today, and it is a sad day. The real questions are what happens to us navy folks when we transfer into the Army or Air Force programs.  Will we have to go through the whole tango process all over again? What about all my current time in service, or does that start at zero again?  Lots of unanswered questions other than by 30 sept we will be history and what about all those mou’s we have? 
I think I will have to wait and see what the “transition” is going to be before I do anything. I would like to continue my MARS service, but I also want to retain what I have earned.
Ron
N9KWW/NNN0VAG (soon to be ex)
 
and for those who have not seen the actual message please ask it is internet releasable.
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N3ZH
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2015, 06:55:56 PM »

It is my understanding there is no slant tango period for a transfer.

It's possible there might be basic training (their equivalent to MOC &  NTP8) to read and possibly take a written test, but probably not.

Every service does things a little different. In Navy MARS even different states might do things a little differently. 
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KA1VF
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Posts: 138




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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2015, 07:08:52 PM »

I'm shocked, but not surprised because we have been hearing muffled rumors
about the "Sunsetting" of NAVMARCORMARS since September of 2014. But,
what they (the DOD) haven't as yet explained is why Navy MARS was singled
out as the sacrificial lamb. If you read "REF/B/DODI 4650.2", it mandates
that each Military branch (ARMY/AIR FORCE/NAVY) shall establish and maintain
a "Military Auxiliary Radio System (MARS)". What a lot of folks may not realize
and appreciate is the fact that NAVMARCORMARS actually supports not one but
three Military entities (Navy/Marines/Coast Guard). Why would they shut down
NAVMARCORMARS which supports three entities, when the other two branches
of MARS (Army and Air Force) only support one entity each?
 
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WD8DBY
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Posts: 97




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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 07:15:53 PM »

I just got the message today, and it is a sad day. The real questions are what happens to us navy folks when we transfer into the Army or Air Force programs.  Will we have to go through the whole tango process all over again? What about all my current time in service, or does that start at zero again?  Lots of unanswered questions other than by 30 sept we will be history and what about all those mou’s we have? 
I think I will have to wait and see what the “transition” is going to be before I do anything. I would like to continue my MARS service, but I also want to retain what I have earned.
Ron
N9KWW/NNN0VAG (soon to be ex)
 
and for those who have not seen the actual message please ask it is internet releasable.

Navy MARS volunteers in good standing need only process an application with Army MARS to transfer.  You will not go back to /Tango.  You will transition as a full member in good standing.  Yes there will be additional training that you will take as a part of the normal training nets run at the state and Region level to be sure everyone is up to speed with using M110A and the TRANSEC program.  There are no written tests, just on air practice of these skills.  This is the same training that Army and AF member currently conduct during their regular nets. 

Both Army and Air Force want to make the transition process as smooth as possible for the Navy volunteers who want to continue their Service in the MARS program. 
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NT0A
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 10:01:13 PM »

If you read "REF/B/DODI 4650.2", it mandates that each Military branch (ARMY/AIR FORCE/NAVY) shall establish and maintain a "Military Auxiliary Radio System (MARS)".  

Actually, that's not what DODINST 4650.2 says. The military branches are not mandated to establish and maintain MARS.

Quote from: DODINST 4650.2
4. SECRETARIES OF THE MILITARY DEPARTMENTS. The Secretaries of the Military Departments shall:

a. Encourage participation in MARS. This may be accomplished by establishing and funding an active MARS program within each Military Department, which shall then assign a MARS-licensed staff representative to manage operations, readiness, planning, procedural and technical development, documentation, standards, training, equipment, program and membership administration, and other matters necessary for mission accomplishment. If such a program is not established, other efforts undertaken by a Military Department to encourage participation in MARS shall be disclosed in an annual report (see paragraph 4.f.).

I discovered that fact when I turned to 4650.2 several years ago as proof of a mandate for MARS. It ain't there. If you review the sunset message, you will see that all the i's have been dotted and all the t's have been crossed to comply with the reporting requirements.

FWIW I have submitted a request to transfer to AFMARS.

73s de Bob NT0A
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 08:16:07 AM by NT0A » Logged
KA1VF
Member

Posts: 138




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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2015, 08:39:46 AM »

     Obviously, the Recruiters are getting active before the Sun has even set on NAVMARCORMARS,
and in that spirit of recruitment, please let me suggest other alternatives (ARES,RACES,SKYWARN).


         73,
              Bob


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N4WWL
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Posts: 8




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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2015, 01:05:56 PM »

For what it's worth, let me offer my personal view on this.  The decision to sunset Navy-Marine Corps (NMC) MARS is understandably disheartening to NMC MARS members.  It is also disheartening to many of your MARS compatriots in the other MARS Services.  The NMC MARS members I have had the pleasure of interacting with are dedicated, loyal, and experienced communicators who support the MARS mission and understand its importance.  Both the Army and Air Force programs would benefit from their expertise and commitment. 

I recognize that this situation may be seen by some as opening the door to an unseemly "rush to recruitment" on the part of the other MARS branches.  But as a long-time volunteer Air Force MARS member and a National Staff assistant to the Air Force MARS Chief, I can say that any NMC MARS members wishing to consider AF MARS will complement the skill sets of current AF MARS members and will be more than welcome.  (I would ask those members interested in seeking AF MARS membership to be patient, however, as Air Force MARS isn't as well-endowed with HQ staff and resources as our Army MARS colleagues and so the administrative processing of paperwork may take a little longer.)

The bottom line is if you are currently a NMC MARS member and interested in transferring to another MARS Service, we'd be delighted if you gave AF MARS a look.

I don't usually have the opportunity to monitor this forum, but anyone with any questions about AF MARS or the transfer process is certainly welcome to contact me via e-mail.  You can reach me at N4WWL@ARRL.NET

73,
Dave
National Planning Coordinator
(also former Northeast Division Director, Public Information Manager, and VA State MARS Director)
USAF MARS
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W6EM
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Posts: 1704




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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2015, 09:43:59 PM »

I just learned of this in this week’s ARRL Letter.  Before I begin, I want to thank all of you NMC members for your service to our military and the nation.  I’m old enough to have been around when NMC MARS was formed in the mid ‘60s, and observed it serve deployed personnel and their families during the Vietnam War and since.

I am not a stranger to MARS, having been first an Air Force MARS member in the 1960s and later an Army MARS member for about 10 years in the 1980s to 1990s.

Morale is incredibly important to any volunteer organization.  The way ARRL reported it is being handled is disturbing.  Using an “unnamed spokesperson” to describe why NMC was selected for closure is particularly disturbing.  And, the commentary about NMC not having widely dispersed membership, aka “boots on the ground” is out of place.  Clearly to me at least, ARRL displayed no interest in preserving MARS.  After all, MARS, in its newer role, is a competitor to ARES.

DoD should not have singled out NMC.  Anyone who has ever been a leader or manager in the military or business knows that when you don’t adequately justify a reorganization, its hari-kari on morale.  The impact on those who have and are serving in the organization and even in the other branches will not be positive. 

Instead, all MARS programs should have been combined as one.  And no, not with it headquartered where the Akima contract staff runs things (Fort Huachucha).  A combined MARS should be run from the Pentagon.  If DoD wants to run it with contractors from there, that’s fine.  (I’ve more than once complained about the disparity in staffing via use of contractors by Army MARS).

ARRL also reported that US Strat Com supposedly chose Army MARS for back up communications.  Quite perplexing.  Especially since Strat Com is largely an Air Force and Naval operation, headquartered at Offutt AFB, NE.  Was Strat Com properly informed as to the capabilities of all MARS organizations or was it approached proactively by salesmen from one branch?

AF MARS, for example, has unique and important phone patch capabilities and nets assisting aircraft.  Nothing like that in the Army programs.  Army’s TSA inter-airport communications backup isn’t even in the same league……

73.

Lee



 

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AA4PB
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Posts: 14420




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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2015, 06:00:25 AM »

While on active duty during the Viet Nam era  I ran the MARS station at Jacksonville, FL for a few years. I haven't been actively involved in many years now but I hate to see Navy-Marine Corps MARS go. I expect (no facts - only opinion) that Navy-Marine Corps MARS was not singled out for closing by DOD, but rather the Navy decided that they didn't want to spend any of their shrinking dollars on a program whose primary mission these days is to support Homeland Security. In the 1970s Jacksonville MARS was supported by Special Services who got much of their funding from the profits of the Navy Exchange. Since MARS at the time was primarily in support of the troops morale it was a good fit. I'm sure there would have been a major concern with today's MARS mission and where the money was coming from.

I know everybody likes to support their own service branch, but it does seem to make sense to have one single MARS service, perhaps under Homeland Security.

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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
N3ZH
Member

Posts: 38




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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2015, 06:04:14 AM »

The last paragraph says this can be released over the internet:



DE NNN0ASA 001
R 122030Z MAY 2015
FM CHNAVMARCORMARS WILLIAMSBURG VA
TO ALNAVMARCORMARS
INFO ZEN/CHIEF ARMY MARS FT HUACHUCA AZ
ZEN/CHIEF AIR FORCE MARS SCOTT AFB IL
BT
UNCLAS
SUBJ/TRANSITION OF NAVY MARINE CORPS MARS (MILITARY AUXILIARY RADIO
SYSTEM PROGRAM//
REF/A/PHONECON/NCTAMS LANT/NAVIDFOR/FCC-C10F/STRATCOM/08 MAY 2015//
REF/B/DODI 4650.2/MILITARY AUXILIARY RADIO SYSTEM (MARS)//
REF/C/DODD 3025.18/DEFENSE SUPPORT OF CIVIL AUTHORITIES//
RMKS/1. IAW REF A, NAVAL COMPUTER AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS AREA MASTER
STATION ATLANTIC (NCTAMS LANT) INTENDS TO WORK WITH U.S. ARMY MARS
AND U.S. AIR FORCE MARS IN TRANSITIONING THE NAVY MARINE CORPS MARS
(NAVMARCORMARS) PROGRAM BY 30 SEP 2015. THE INTENT OF THE TRANSITION
IS TO BEST ALIGN THE PROGRAM TO SUPPORT NATIONAL MISSION
REQUIREMENTS.
2. EVALUATION OF THE NAVMARCORMARS PROGRAM BY FLEET CYBER COMMAND
(FCC)/COMMANDER 10TH FLEET (C10F), NAVAL INFORMATION DOMINATION
FORCES (NAVIDFOR), AND NCTAMS LANT DETERMINED THAT THERE ARE NO U.S.
NAVY SERVICE UNIQUE REQUIREMENTS.
3. NCTAMS LANT WILL WORK WITH OTHER U.S. NAVY, U.S. ARMY, U.S. AIR
FORCE, U.S. STRATEGIC COMMAND, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
REPRESENTATIVES, AND NAVMARCORMARS VOLUNTEERS TO DEVELOP A TRANSITION
PLAN FOR NAVMARCORMARS MEMBERS WHICH MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF REF B
AND REF C.
4. CURRENT NAVMARCORMARS INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS AND CLUBS ARE ENCOURAGED
TO BEGIN SUBMISSION OF APPLICATIONS TO U.S. ARMY MARS OR U.S. AIR
FORCE MARS PROGRAMS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. U.S. ARMY MARS MEMBERSHIP
CAN BE REQUESTED AT
http://HTTP://WWW.USARMYMARS.ORG/RESOURCES/APPLICATIONS-AND-FORMS AND U.S.
AIR FORCE MARS MEMBERSHIPS INFORMATION CAN BE REQUESTED VIA E-MAIL TO
38CYRS.SCM.MARS@US.AF.MIL.
5. ADDITIONAL GUIDANCE WILL ALSO BE PROVIDED SEPCOR FOR MARS STATIONS
UNDER MILITARY AUSPICES, AGENCY STATIONS, AND INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS WHO
ALSO PARTICIPATE IN THE DHS SHARED RESOURCES (SHARES) HF RADIO
PROGRAM.
6. AT A MINIMUM, FUTURE NOTICES WILL BE PROVIDED VIA CHIEF,
NAVMARCORMARS MESSAGE. OTHER MEDIA WILL BE IDENTIFIED AS PART OF THE
TRANSITION COMMUNICATIONS PLAN.
7. THE U.S. NAVY GREATLY APPRECIATES THE THOUSANDS OF MARS
VOLUNTEERS, PAST AND PRESENT, WHO HAVE BEEN INTEGRAL TO THE SUCCESS
OF MARS. NCTAMS LANT WILL KEEP YOU INFORMED OF TRANSITION EFFORTS AND
REQUESTS YOUR ASSISTANCE TO HELP START THIS NEW CHAPTER IN MARS
OPERATIONS.
8. NCTAMS LANT POC: BO LINDFORS, COMM 757-443-9055, DSN 312-646-9055,
BO.LINDFORS@NAVY.MIL AND CHRIS JENSEN, COMM: 757-443-9063, DSN:
312-646-9063, CHRISTOPHER.J.JENSE1@NAVY.MIL.
9. FCC/C10F POC: MICHAEL KEGLEY, COMM: 301-688-2387,
MICHAEL.KEGLEY@NAVY.MIL.
10. U.S. ARMY MARS POC: PAUL ENGLISH, COMM: 254-947-3141,
PAUL.A.ENGLISH.CIV@MAIL.MIL.
11. U.S. AIR FORCE MARS POC: DAVID STAPCHUK, COMM: 618-229-5964,
DAVID.STAPCHUK.2@US.AF.MIL.
12. INTERNET RELEASE IS AUTHORIZED.//
BT
NNNN

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NA4IT
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2015, 06:28:30 AM »

My question is what happens to all the EMA offices and hospitals with a NavyMARS Winlink call...
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