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Author Topic: Arrogance v. I'm a Lid  (Read 4288 times)
N3WSH
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« on: March 17, 2002, 03:53:25 PM »

I worked H7DX on two consecutive days, on QRP cw on 20 mtrs. Each entire QSO, while brief, seemed clear to me.
When their log came out, my call didn't appear, and their response to my e-mail query was that their log was "...complete and correct".
I'm relatively new to DXing, and I'll certainly not suffer very much from the lack of a QSL, but I'd welcome feedback from them that's been there. Thanks.
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WA4DOU
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2002, 07:25:16 PM »

Hi, I'd like to be able to tell you what went wrong but I'm not sure thats possible. Therefore, lets consider some possibilities. Perhaps there was a mistake made when the operator logged your qso. I took the liberty of going over to the website and plugging a number of different possible mistakes into their log but came up empty. However, the likelihood of them making the same mistake twice, had that happened, seems slimmer than just once. Another possibility is that you made a mistake and thought they acknowledged your call when in fact they were answering another call that might have been quite similiar. This is something we all must be on guard against because its also possible that they were copying you but were unable to accurately pull out your call correctly. In some cases it would be near impossible to know what call they thought they copied. Thats just one of the many reasons why its so important to listen when its time to listen so as to hear whats going on at the other end. Unfortunately, the Ducie Is. and San Felix dx'peditions prove that at least a few thousand operators haven't a clue when to call and when to listen. As you become more accomplished in chasing dx, you'll tend to develop a "nose" for "other end mistakes" that apply to your call and your qso. Lets suppose that qrm prevented them from accurately copying your call. Send them your qsl for both contacts and send a note along asking them to please compare the log data in the actual log to your report. If they do so, and most all will upon request, they may see an obvious similarity between the qso's recorded and your reported qso's. Enough so to recognize an obvious error. If that doesn't work out(be patient) then write it off to the price of experience and push on. At least YN isn't rare dx. I worked a dx'pedition last year, K3H I think and later their log appeared on the internet. I'm not in the log but guess what, WA4BOU is! Same band, just the one contact on 15 meters. There is no WA4BOU in the FCC database. Bet you money its my contact, mislogged. A simple dit! I'll get around to doing the same thing I suggested to you if it doesn't become apparent to them in due time. Last year I worked BV9L and their on the internet log doesn't reflect the contact either. Not sure why but it isn't the end of the world. Either I'll get a card or not. May have to work it over. As far as I know I've never had it to happen otherwise. Humans make mistakes however. That doesn't make one a lid. But the atrocious behavior we're seeing on the bands in pileups today is a good measure of what a lid is. Do the best you can to learn from every source( books are great too) how not to be a lid, how to operate split freq. correctly, when to call, when not to call, and how not to be overly aggressive and you'll make the grade and be a fine dx'er. Good luck and 73 de Roy WA4DOU
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N3WSH
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2002, 09:17:03 AM »

Thanks for the response. I did try every combination of calls that I thought could possibly have been mistaken for mine; no luck. As you said, two QSOs lowers the possibilities for error, and I heard the other station repeat my call clearly both times. I'll chalk this up to experience, and be glad it wasn't rare DX.
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2002, 05:16:05 PM »

At least the H7 is only Nicaragua, although its a cool prefix and if you collect PX's it might be a good one.

Chalk it up to experience!

Hmmm, now will my P5/4L4FN ever count for anything...?

WB2WIK/6
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K0RS
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2002, 12:00:43 AM »

Well, it happens to us all.  I worked 3YØPI on 40m and it came back NIL (Not In Log).  Not only did I work him, but my best friend was in the pile-up and heard it, too.  So I know I wasn't imagining it!

One possibility is that you were purposely deleted from the log for working him twice on the same band/mode.  Granted, this would be an extremely vindictive thing to do.  Normally, if a DX'pedition was going to have such a strict policy about duplicate contacts, it would be announced in advance.  That would be silly with an operation from a country as common as YN,  but you never know.  Sometimes DX ops get an exaggerated sense on their own importance.   For your own protection, and as a courtesy to others, avoid duplicating QSO's if you're sure the 1st contact was valid.
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DL7IO
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2002, 09:47:24 AM »

No one has been deleted because of working them twice.
Holger
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N3WSH
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2002, 10:58:36 AM »

This is kind of what I'm talking about: a statement such as, "no one has been deleted because of working them twice", in the absence of any reason or explanation, sounds like arrogance to me. Sort of like "...the log is complete and correct". The inference is that the authors of these comments are omniscient, at least in their own minds. This latest comment also comes from someone who was not listed as a member of the expedition.
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NI0C
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2002, 05:23:53 PM »

I don't agree with your dichotomy: i.e., "arrogance vs. I'm a lid."  As others have said, we all get "not in log" responses sometimes.  Mistakes are made by both parties in a qso.  At QSO rates of 300 or more per hour, it is a wonder that not more mistakes are made.  My first QSL from 3Y5X had the band as 20 meters, even though I worked them on 10 meters.  I wrote to the QSL manager who compared paper logs with the computer logs and found the error, and sent me a new card.  
Each time I've encountered a "not in log" response from a QSL manager has been for a QSO I didn't feel quite right about.  I've learned to trust my gut feelings on this and attempt another QSO.  This would be a good time to remind new DX'ers always to give their full calls, and insist on hearing your full call from the DX.
73, Chuck NI0C
   
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EI4HQ
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2002, 04:10:56 AM »

Funny,
I worked PJ2/DF7DF (if I've remembered the call right -anyhow it was the PJ2/D station thats been on air this past week) and despite *numerous* attempts on my part to correct the operator my call was being copied as EI4SQ instead of EI4HQ... now PJ2 is a new one for me and I'm only a few confirms short of DXCC so they all really count right now. However the op. was working a lot of stations, he was weak enough with me, I was only running 100w into a 1/4 wave ground mounted vertical so the error is understandable... yes its frustrating but THATS DX!  I certainly wouldn't hold any grudge agin the operator - I'm just grateful he/she is out there making the rare ones available Shocked)
NIL is a fact of DX life - I'm sending a card in the hope that the call was correctly copied and there was just a bit of cw fist fatigue going on...
Chalk it up! It WILL happen again and probably with an incredibly rare one like VP6DI - I spent a lot of time listening to that operation and the number of seriously dodgey qso's was quite unbelieveable - many ops. suffering from a serious dose of wishful thinking that'd they'd worked the DX...
73
Cormac, EI4<<H>>Q Shocked)
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DL7IO
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Posts: 52




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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2002, 11:35:47 AM »

I'm really sorry that I gave a comment... and the only thing I wanted to say is:
Nobody has been deleted because of working them twice!
The whole team is very experienced with 30-40 years of HAMing, DXing & DXped, so knowing both sides of the story. And they do not try to teach/educate people during a DXped. If someone calls a second time he/she gets another report and will be logged again. It takes more time to discuss with people and will interrupt your pileup.
This has nothing to do with arrogance but with experience and the best and easiest way to made as many HAM's happy as possible.
Tell me any reason why they should tell you NIL if you would be in???
I'm sure if there would be a callsign familiar to yours they would accept it. I don't worry for EI4HQ. If EI4SQ is in the log PJ2/DL7DF will send him a card.
I've been on a small DXped last 2 weeks had stations calling me 3 times on the same band and mode and they got a RST everytime and they are in the log 3-times and will find 3 QSO's on one band on the QSL.
Again:
1. It is not worth to discuss double QSO's during a pileup!--> Just work'em twice
2. It is not worth to delete the QSO's because this will result only in frust, trouble and discussions.

And finally to end this discussion...how can I know? I talked with them regarding your missed QSO's because I wanted to help you. I personally know all 3 of them very good and had lots of beers, endless discussions and even contesting together with them. So it is something like "the same school".
I'm very sorry that I gave a comment...
Holger
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