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Author Topic: Any update on KZ80 and K3VR fines enforcement actions?  (Read 24105 times)
WI8P
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Posts: 593




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« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2015, 04:38:54 AM »

Tom,  are we reading the same thread? .... Where did you come up with fraud? Before getting all self-righteous, maybe you should actually read the material. .... Both of the call signs in the OP have had NALs issued. .... On 1-14-15 the FCC affirmed a $11,500 fine against K3VR for causing deliberate interference to other amateur stations. .... Go ahead Tom, start digging. .... I said all I have to say, you know the old saying 'fighting with unarmed men'. .... Carry on. No worthy discussions here.

Had the call sign name of one confused with another ham - I'll stop digging!   Grin
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PITSWL
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Posts: 176




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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2015, 06:49:25 AM »

KZ8O NAL affirmed:

http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2015/db0722/DA-15-832A1.pdf
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"Section 97.101(d) prohibits ALL amateur licensees from causing harmful interference, and does not provide ANY exception for interference caused to other amateurs whom the interferer believes have violated a Commission rule." - DA 16-877 at 17
KJ6ZOL
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Posts: 820




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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2015, 01:50:12 PM »


LOL, how come these losers always say, well I'm living on SSI and can't pay? Too freakin bad. Do the crime, do the time. If these jerks had their SSI yanked for this sort of thing, maybe they'd think twice. A felony conviction makes the perp lose govt benefits, why not this crap?
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W9BB
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2015, 07:05:05 PM »


Still doesn't mean anything...likely, no fine will be paid...but not my problem...
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K1ZJH
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« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2015, 11:32:18 AM »

$22,000!!  He got someone really ticked off at the FCC.  But, there are other well known cases where fines are still outstanding. At what point does a Federal marshal go out with an arrest warrant and deal with these people?
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PITSWL
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« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2015, 12:34:27 PM »

$22,000!!  He got someone really ticked off at the FCC.

No, he just broke the rules governing amateur radio egregiously for more than 15 years and repeatedly showed a lack of respect for the authority of the FCC as well as the amateur radio community.

Quote from: K1ZJH
But, there are other well known cases where fines are still outstanding. At what point does a Federal marshal go out with an arrest warrant and deal with these people?

Never.

The Department of Justice now has to decide whether or not to pursue the judgment through the civil court system, much like the Department of the Treasury files civil suit for unpaid Federal taxes.

If they do that, and they prevail in civil court (and there is no reason to believe they wont prevail), the most likely outcome is that they'll place a lien against property (a principal residence, generally). They probably can't seize property, but US Government liens don't go away (and probably accrue interest), meaning that the property can never be sold without dealing with the lien.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 12:36:32 PM by PITSWL » Logged

"Section 97.101(d) prohibits ALL amateur licensees from causing harmful interference, and does not provide ANY exception for interference caused to other amateurs whom the interferer believes have violated a Commission rule." - DA 16-877 at 17
N2EY
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Posts: 4441




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« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2015, 01:12:53 PM »

$22,000!!  He got someone really ticked off at the FCC.  But, there are other well known cases where fines are still outstanding. At what point does a Federal marshal go out with an arrest warrant and deal with these people?

PITSWL pretty much answered most of that, but there's a few fine points:

1) From what I have seen, the Federal-marshal-arrest-warrant stuff would only come into play if there were interference with a safety service, a false distress call, threats of violence or some similar violation.

2) License renewal is a typical enforcement tool of FCC. It takes time but it does work.

3) FCC enforcement is largely complaint-driven. So it's important to keep the complaints going to FCC, with useful info (recordings, times, dates, frequencies).

4) Much of the behavior we hams detest is often not strictly against the rules. Or it's a matter of judgement. Language and subject matter, for example, may be highly inappropriate but not really illegal. Jamming may be hard to prove as intentional. Etc.

This is why the things FCC goes after often seem to be "letter of the law", such as failure-to-ID, lack-of-control-operator, failure-to-allow-inspection, etc. Those things are enforced because they're completely objective and easy to prove.

----

I, too, wish for the FCC of the old days, when they were more "activist", and quicker.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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W6EM
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« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2015, 03:33:12 PM »

....
I, too, wish for the FCC of the old days, when they were more "activist", and quicker.

73 de Jim, N2EY
Be careful what you wish for.....  Some of the "old" days included taking modest/moderate action without objective evidence that was later reversed.....

I applaud Laura Smith and the Enforcement Bureau for sticking with these and amassing the objective, irrefutable evidence of violation of Title 47 of the United States Code.

If the Forefeiture Orders ultimately end up in Federal District Court for collection, the evidence won't fold.

The other piece of this is what is called the "Red Light Rule."  Simply said, if a debt is owed the Commission and it is not paid by the time of Application for Renewal, the application will be Dismissed.  Meaning no more license.

Ask ex-K1MAN.



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ARCSPARK
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Posts: 38




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« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2015, 07:32:58 PM »

....
I, too, wish for the FCC of the old days, when they were more "activist", and quicker.

73 de Jim, N2EY
Be careful what you wish for.....  Some of the "old" days included taking modest/moderate action without objective evidence that was later reversed.....

I applaud Laura Smith and the Enforcement Bureau for sticking with these and amassing the objective, irrefutable evidence of violation of Title 47 of the United States Code.

If the Forefeiture Orders ultimately end up in Federal District Court for collection, the evidence won't fold.

The other piece of this is what is called the "Red Light Rule."  Simply said, if a debt is owed the Commission and it is not paid by the time of Application for Renewal, the application will be Dismissed.  Meaning no more license.

Ask ex-K1MAN.


ask K1LEM. also same thing with him, his license renewal was 2016, so he just changed his call this year and got 10 more years scott free.

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W6EM
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Posts: 1642




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« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2015, 09:17:05 PM »

.....ask K1LEM. also same thing with him, his license renewal was 2016, so he just changed his call this year and got 10 more years scott free.
Hard to hide.  His FRN is linked to his name and SS#.  One of the 14.275/14.313 crowd changed his call, but that didn't affect the Enforcement Bureau's pursuit.  K3VR tried the call change caper, but after his Notice of Apparent Liability.  I think it was to something like N0AL, and they sidelined it.

The Red Light Rule makes it simpler than taking them before an ALJ to determine "fitness" to remain licensees. 
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G3RZP
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Posts: 8125




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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2015, 01:48:25 AM »

I suspect that the FCC can issue NOALs but collecting on them is another matter. If the guy really can show he has no money, then what's the point of trying to squeeze blood out of a stone? It gets to the stage of costing more to investigate and take to court than the amount the government can ever get.

Can they garnish any SS payments - say take 20% off until the fine is paid? At $22k, it would take a long time, but he would hurt as a result.
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WI8P
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Posts: 593




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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2015, 04:50:35 AM »

I suspect that the FCC can issue NOALs but collecting on them is another matter. If the guy really can show he has no money, then what's the point of trying to squeeze blood out of a stone? It gets to the stage of costing more to investigate and take to court than the amount the government can ever get.

Can they garnish any SS payments - say take 20% off until the fine is paid? At $22k, it would take a long time, but he would hurt as a result.

The law prohibits garnishment of Social Security benefits with one notable exception - the Federal government.  So yes, it could be done.
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G3RZP
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Posts: 8125




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« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2015, 06:00:03 AM »

Quote
The FCC should notify the SS office that a guy with this much energy and time on his hands to disrupt the ham bands doesn't appear to be all that disabled.

I suspect the trouble is that both sets of bureaucrats would have to consult their higher managements in a series of meetings and then the matter would be referred to the department lawyers as to the legality of sharing information and of proceeding in such a way and then the lawyers would report back, meaning more meetings.....The time and paperwork would be such as it wouldn't be considered worthwhile.

A determined civil service can prevent most things happening......Thus the UK military joke that the Army have a new weapon in procurement. It doesn't work and you can't fire it - it's called a civil servant.
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SM0AOM
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Posts: 189




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« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2015, 06:57:33 AM »

A determined civil service can prevent most things happening......Thus the UK military joke that the Army have a new weapon in procurement. It doesn't work and you can't fire it - it's called a civil servant.

I find civil servants, accountants and lawyers somewhat related.
In the mid 90's I was involved in Union matters with the Swedish Association of Graduate Engineers.

The association had a gathering where a related joke about accountants started the proceedings.
This was so good that I have remembered it since.
It goes this way:

"The scene is the Red Square in Moscow, and it is so long ago that Jurij Andropov is Party General Secretary.
An enormous military parade is crossing the Square, and there is a constant flow of missiles, guns and related WMD's across the Square.

Suddenly there is a gap in the parade, and a few middle-aged civilians in ill-fitting suits are marching by.

Andropov does not believe his eyes, and leans to the Minister of Defence asking:

"Comrade General, what are the civilians doing in the military parade?"

The general answers: "Comrade Secretary, they are not ordinary civilians, they are accountants!"

Andropov becomes flabbergasted and asks loudly: "But, Comrade General, what on earth have accountants to do with WMD's?"

The general explains: "Comrade Secretary, you are obviously not aware of the amount of destruction that can be caused by a few accountants..."

General laughter in the audience.

73/
Karl-Arne
SM0AOM

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W9BB
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Posts: 1386




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« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2015, 03:34:58 PM »

W4BHV being fined $1000 for failure to ID on the air, the FEDs could have fined more....


http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-proposes-fining-georgia-ham-1000-for-failing-to-identify


Seems all the write ups I see on QST/ARRL Website, are all well known offenders, frequent offenders at that...

Some things I suspect will never change....

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