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Author Topic: Politically Incorrect - Are These Hams ?  (Read 31843 times)
KD8TUT
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Posts: 522




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« Reply #105 on: July 27, 2015, 03:30:54 PM »

I listened to a net on 20 meters yesterday afternoon. I was curious about one of the voices(thought it was an old friend, but not) looked up the FCC.GOV and lo and behold the
operator was a Technician class ham...so I looked up a couple more guys, and they too were Technicians...this was in the 14.268 area of band....It is really getting bad for ham
radio these days....so much for rules, past history, or just plain honest good operating practices.

Did you go on and point out the error of their ways and educate them or just sit there bitching to yourself?

I remember they told me to "get fuc.ed" and get lost.

Record video.. send to FCC... alert observers??

That's what I'd have done.
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KG7CSS
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« Reply #106 on: July 29, 2015, 01:12:37 PM »

Computer hobbyists today often feel they've accomplished something by building their own computer, when all they're doing is taking a bunch of off-the-shelf parts and plugging them together.  That's not building anything, any more than I built my bathroom sink by going to Home Depot and buying stuff, and then bringing it home and installing it. Tongue

As somebody who works in PC hardware engineering as a  tech, I seen hardware go from s-100 bus,  to Z80 with peripheral TTL chips, to CPU North Bridge , South Bridge,  to CPU an  Platform Controller  Hub, to System on a Chip where all  the external peripherals, power controller, video controller and CPU  on the same ball grid array package.  I used to build my own PC , since the 286 days, but  as  IC’s became more compact and do more  it no longer worth  the extra effort to drop in  a CPU and a few sticks of memory. I still prefer to install the OS myself.

As we went to all parts soldered to the motherboard, I thought computer hobby was dead, then came the Raspberry PI and Arduino.  The Maker / Hacker community are doing a lot things from parallel   processing, robotic drones and even flying pico balloons with an 11 gram transmitter they built using SMT parts, building home. Heck they using Arduino to turn old toaster overs into SMT reflow ovens; building their own SMT circuit boards.

With all this going on where is ham radio, except for a few flashes of innovation i.e the Ham Shield, most is stuck up with their things are better in 1970’s blinders on.    You want brag how you built your transceiver with 1970s technology? Well it doesn’t impress me compared to what kids are dong with USB SDR dongles or the person flies a pic balloon that circles the earth eight time with a frequency agile tracker that changes modes and frequency according to location. It not kids are dumb you are blind to what is going on. Throw off the blinders and step out the ham shack for a while.

What we got to show in ham radio? rag chews about the old days and trolling young people an gamers using ham radio, it is  disgusting.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 08:33:09 AM by KG7CSS » Logged
G3RZP
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« Reply #107 on: July 29, 2015, 02:08:33 PM »

However, there is still the problem of getting decent RF performance, and it is still easier and probably still cheaper to get a clean PA (in terms of IMD and unwanted emissions in the spurious domain) with tubes.......which might explain why the last generation of tube PA transceivers were very appreciably cleaner than the modern solid state stuff. The mathematics suggest it should be so....

But with the emphasis on digital electronics, regrettably few people understand this...
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FLYBYNITE

Posts: 9




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« Reply #108 on: August 10, 2015, 09:34:50 AM »

Wow, a wanna-be no-code tech... who would have expected?  Tell ya what, buddy... when the day comes when you can figure out how to attach a PL-259 to a piece of coax, I hope the curmudgeons don't bother answering any of your questions, or bothering to answer any advice. Go take your attitude back to CB or where ever you came from. Us curmudgeons are still holding down the fort.


What I personally find amazing is how many Know-Code Extras like to crow about how they know CW or can build a legal-limit amp from duct tape, two toothpicks and a thimble, who reminiscence about the good old days when their shacks were radioactive from some WWII surplus rig, or who refuse to operate on that newfangled sideband crap, but come looking for help from us no-code licensees when they need help with anything to do with computers, LoTW, digital modes and the like.



The hobby changes. The hobby moves on. Many forget it is just a hobby. Fortunately, it is a hobby big enough for all of us.



           In re: to 'the hobby moves on..." well that may be, but the hobby need not be dumbed down for the sole excuse that it "moves on". It isn't just amateur radio that has been stupidified, I find it in *everything*. Why? It is almost as if there is something in the water, or for the tin-foil hat people maybe smart phones are making people stupid?  While I am no expert in electronics or amateur radio, I notice how things are a lot less technical minded, everything from magazine articles/web pages/tech specs on eqpt is much much simpler now, and more spelled out, as if they are written out so even the most stupid can figure it out. Remember when you had learn how to use a computer before you bought one?? Ha! "Times have changed". Everything's simplified now.


          OK, let me give you another unrelated example that infuriates me: I began crocheting less than 1 year ago, but my being Homo Sapiens I am capable of figuring out how to make something so simple as a washcloth without a pattern (I am a stay at home wife, so don't get weirded out by my sewing hobbies lol)- the infuriating part is how every sewing PBS tv show is hosted by a lady that seems to be giving instructions to a mentally challenged child. I go online looking for patterns, and the web is clogged with pure junk, nothing too complicated or worthwhile, just "baby stuff". I know now to look at vintage 1910's publications for my patterns because all the recent stuff is way too simple, so banal as to be tedious. ANY hobby- you pick! They are all the same, all baby-fied so the slower people can follow along.  I like crafts, but all the crafts websites have instructions for things that do not NEED instruction- what the heck is going on? I'm no genius,just average-  but it appears to me that everything- NOT just amateur radio, has been dumbed down to the lowest level possible. Notice all the DIY websites and books? Now go take a look at one from a hundred years ago: https://archive.org/details/boymechanicbook200chic2    (free download The boy mechanic : book 2: 1000 things for boys to do (c1915) OK, first project is "Plane Table Surveying" also how to make from scratch a Surveyor's Transit. This is for CHILDREN. This is what boys- not adults, would be making one hundred years ago. I have seen an entire web page recently posted, on a camera site devoted on how to build a simple tripod(!) today, for ADULTS. Now- tell me "times have changed"! Boy have they. Some of you older guys may remember building your first Crystal Radio. A lot more was expected of you in those days. Today, parents cheer if their child can color inside the lines it seems to me.


                I am under age 50, and I am sounding more and more curmudgeonly myself. I'm sick n tired of everything made so dumb, so simple and so basic. We sent a man to the moon - we don't need baby instructions anymore. Why have things gotten DUMBER now instead of more complex?? Isn't that going backward?

                     The OP is not wrong. He is only seeing this in radio because that is his hobby- I have a few more hobbies and I see it all over the place. And I don't like the excuse or careless phrase that "the times are changing, deal with it". Anyway, I just had to get this off my chest.
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PITSWL
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Posts: 176




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« Reply #109 on: August 10, 2015, 01:09:13 PM »

This is what boys- not adults, would be making one hundred years ago. I have seen an entire web page recently posted, on a camera site devoted on how to build a simple tripod(!) today, for ADULTS. Now- tell me "times have changed"! Boy have they. Some of you older guys may remember building your first Crystal Radio. A lot more was expected of you in those days. Today, parents cheer if their child can color inside the lines it seems to me. I am under age 50, and I am sounding more and more curmudgeonly myself. I'm sick n tired of everything made so dumb, so simple and so basic. We sent a man to the moon - we don't need baby instructions anymore. Why have things gotten DUMBER now instead of more complex?? Isn't that going backward? The OP is not wrong. He is only seeing this in radio because that is his hobby- I have a few more hobbies and I see it all over the place. And I don't like the excuse or careless phrase that "the times are changing, deal with it". Anyway, I just had to get this off my chest.

What you're describing is one of the more noticeable and disturbing symptoms Western civilization's ever-accelerating decline.
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KG7CSS
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Posts: 114




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« Reply #110 on: August 10, 2015, 01:10:00 PM »



           In re: to 'the hobby moves on..." well that may be, but the hobby need not be dumbed down for the sole excuse that it "moves on". It isn't just amateur radio that has been stupidified, I find it in *everything*. Why? It is almost as if there is something in the water, or for the tin-foil hat people maybe smart phones are making people stupid?  While I am no expert in electronics or amateur radio, I notice how things are a lot less technical minded, everything from magazine articles/web pages/tech specs on eqpt is much much simpler now, and more spelled out, as if they are written out so even the most stupid can figure it out. Remember when you had learn how to use a computer before you bought one?? Ha! "Times have changed". Everything's simplified now.

Oh really are thing really being  simplified  and dumbed dowm?

Perhaps  you are not looking at the right places

http://hackaday.com
http://makezine.com/
https://www.raspberrypi.org

Why do In need to look at  a 1910  how to guide for what I want to do in tech in 2015.


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AF7JA
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« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2015, 02:34:31 PM »

Being the owner of a complete Boy-Mechanic series (my father gave me the books) I will comment. Most of the stuff in the The Boy Mechanic book s were unfeasible in the 70's. There simply was not the access to scrap materials that the projects called for.

There is another reason that these books start from a more basic level. There has been a widespread falloff in participation in men's hobbies. There are many reasons for this: changing interests, lack of disposable income, increases in the number of hours worked . . . these all explain some. However, the effect remains the same, there is a lack of expertise to call on.

Today I received a power supply kit and opened it right after work and started soldering. This baffled several co-workers . . . how do you know how to do that?

These people are not stupid; like me, all have masters degrees in their fields. They have just not developed the experience.

Instructions, that expect to have people successfully follow them, have to work from an assumed skill set, no matter what that assumption is. At the present, the assumption can be zero experience, or advanced in other regards e.g. Weld the strut to the main frame member exactly 7 cm below . . . an instruction like this may assume a knowledge of welding but very little knowledge in HPV design.

It does no good to call people stupid. All that does is alienates people. It is helpful to remember that there has been, nearly, an entire generation that has not developed and nurtured hobbies. Further, that loss creates a break in the generational flow of both knowledge and interest.
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KB1WSY
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« Reply #112 on: August 12, 2015, 05:23:16 AM »

I've just read all of this thread ... phew.

Part of what is happening is that the Internet is an echo chamber both for good and bad trends. It is very easy to make a fool of yourself on a Web forum; and these technically "dumb" comments wouldn't have been "heard" by more than a handful of people in the past.

There is an inexorable progression: the increasing complication and sophistication of science and technology. I am just old enough that as a teenager, I could learn how electronic devices (radios, TV sets, ...) actually worked. Something like a telephone wasn't much more than a carbon capsule, a long wire (with some amplifiers here and there), and an earpiece. Even the technology behind an automatic telephone exchange was fairly easy to understand. Things were similarly "simpler" in the life sciences before the big advances from DNA, cloning, etc.

If something is very hard to understand (and increasingly the province of narrow specialists), is it surprising that people are not interested in understanding it?

Turning now to the positive side. I have several hobbies; the main ones are ham radio and plastic modeling. It's unlikely that I would have made much progress in either of them without the amazing knowledge base available on the Web; and the *people* who are willing to help out newbies. It doesn't take very long to realize that there is a very "deep bench" of people who are just as passionate about (insert hobby here) and know a lot more than you do. I also have lots of books and magazines (and read them cover to cover) but there's nothing like getting help directly from people. And, yes, knowing that you can ask really dumb questions!

Because of the Web, we can "see" much more of the picture than we might have in the past, when most of our interactions would have been on the air, in a local club or through books and magazines. Some of what we see is good, some not so good.

One of the more positive things that you can "see" on the Web is that there are plenty of people who are "building things with their own hands." That's the case even when it would have been cheaper to just buy the thing (or hire a craftsperson) to build it.

Edited to add: I'm amused that the old chestnut, "soldering a PL-259," is once again being adduced as a "child's play" example. I've built entire receivers and transmitters from scratch. But soldering a PL-259 is one of my least favorite and most frustrating tasks! I ended up buying an extra-beefy soldering iron just for that task; must try it out one of these days.

73 de Martin, KB1WSY
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 05:27:14 AM by KB1WSY » Logged
K8AXW
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« Reply #113 on: August 12, 2015, 06:51:33 AM »

"Extra beefy" is the solution!  An extra kicker is to grind the tip to fit inside the solder hole area. 

(That and removing the nickle plating from the solder hole area with a small rat tailed file first.)
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AF7JA
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« Reply #114 on: August 12, 2015, 07:20:52 AM »

I have several hobbies; the main ones are ham radio and plastic modeling.73 de Martin, KB1WSY

Another plastic modeling fan here.
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K7KBN
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« Reply #115 on: August 12, 2015, 12:15:27 PM »

"Extra beefy" is the solution!  An extra kicker is to grind the tip to fit inside the solder hole area. 

(That and removing the nickle plating from the solder hole area with a small rat tailed file first.)
/.

I cut the tail off a small rat.  Doesn't remove any plating at all.... Sad
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
W1JKA
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« Reply #116 on: August 12, 2015, 12:52:50 PM »

With the exception of Sen. Barry Goldwater I fail to see to see what Political correctness has to do with the little armchair hobby of Ham radio, perhaps if you took up the hobby of golf it may have a little pertinence.
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KD8TUT
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« Reply #117 on: August 12, 2015, 09:04:08 PM »

With the exception of Sen. Barry Goldwater I fail to see to see what Political correctness has to do with the little armchair hobby of Ham radio, perhaps if you took up the hobby of golf it may have a little pertinence.

I like pizza.
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KB1WSY
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« Reply #118 on: August 13, 2015, 05:10:38 AM »

With the exception of Sen. Barry Goldwater I fail to see to see what Political correctness has to do with the little armchair hobby of Ham radio, perhaps if you took up the hobby of golf it may have a little pertinence.

I'm not sure either, but I think the OP means that criticizing people for being "dumb" or ignorant is "politically incorrect" -- a phrase whose meaning has become so elastic that it is fast losing its original usefulness.

Today's extremely broad definition of "political correctness" is well captured in the Wikipedia entry:

Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct, commonly abbreviated to PC) is a pejorative term used to criticize language, actions, or policies seen as being excessively calculated to not offend or disadvantage any particular group of people in society.

Presumably the group the OP is targeting is "hams who don't deserve to be called hams."

Edited to add: As for my personal opinion, of course they are hams! They passed the test and have a license! There are all sorts of hams, but calling into question whether a licensed ham is or isn't a "ham"....

73 de Martin, KB1WSY
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 05:16:12 AM by KB1WSY » Logged
AF7JA
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« Reply #119 on: August 13, 2015, 05:35:21 AM »

With the exception of Sen. Barry Goldwater I fail to see to see what Political correctness has to do with the little armchair hobby of Ham radio, perhaps if you took up the hobby of golf it may have a little pertinence.

I'm not sure either, but I think the OP means that criticizing people for being "dumb" or ignorant is "politically incorrect" -- a phrase whose meaning has become so elastic that it is fast losing its original usefulness.


73 de Martin, KB1WSY


Agreed. I am very critical of the limitation on speech in this country and the hidden minefields that control our discussions. However, may people confuse political incorrectness with plain old rudeness, and think the term "political incorrectness" somehow excuses rudeness.

If a person cannot be both honest and polite, then they need to work on expanding their vocabulary.
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