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Author Topic: Windows 10 updates to be automatic and mandatory for Home users  (Read 15376 times)
W8JX
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« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2015, 10:55:38 AM »

It's sort of like taking my car to the mechanic to fix a basic problem, then getting it back with a blower and hydraulics installed because he "thought I should have it".

Not even remotely related.  It does not auto install optional updates, only critical ones. Typically a new OS needs a lot of patching first year or so as critical bug are found and with complexity of new OS you cannot warrant decent predicable performance if you cannot be sure of timely patches being installed.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
AC2EU
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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2015, 07:32:25 AM »

It's sort of like taking my car to the mechanic to fix a basic problem, then getting it back with a blower and hydraulics installed because he "thought I should have it".

Not even remotely related.  It does not auto install optional updates, only critical ones. Typically a new OS needs a lot of patching first year or so as critical bug are found and with complexity of new OS you cannot warrant decent predicable performance if you cannot be sure of timely patches being installed.

Ok, then what about all of those broken applications after recent updates? Was that "decent predicable performance"?
My over-all impression of MS from years of frustration is that it is a half-baked software company with hopelessly broken engineering management oversight.
You are a stalwart MS defender.  Do you work for MS?
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W4KYR
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2015, 07:46:13 AM »

This is stirring up a s-storm over at Slashdot. 310 comments and climbing....

Windows 10's Automatic Updates For NVidia Drivers Causing Trouble

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/15/07/26/1858214/windows-10s-automatic-updates-for-nvidia-drivers-causing-trouble


I found this interesting. Maybe there is an money incentive behind this after all?

"Obviously the push is on to sell more copies of the professional version rather than the home version. Either get to play crash test dummy for M$ or pay the extra $99, bwa hah hah, suckers."
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The internet and cellphone networks are great until they go down, what then? Find out here. 
https://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,111948.0.html

Using Windows 98 For Packet...
W8JX
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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2015, 08:20:00 AM »


You are a stalwart MS defender.  Do you work for MS?


Not at all but unlike you I understand the complexity of modern OSes and drivers and such for them and you think a new OS is like old MS DOS that does not need to be actively upgraded on drivers and patches as it evolves. If you have good hardware drivers will work fine but if it is crapware then you spin dice. You should go back to Win95 or 98 or maybe XP as it will never update but only/crash/trash to modern threats.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
W2BLC
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« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2015, 08:32:14 AM »

Someone said, "Many will find out the hard way what a bad idea it is to reinvest in 7 and use it on life support for 4+ years while technology advances greatly in that same time. Win 7 was developed in 2007-2008 (based on Vista) and is very dated today."

I found no advantage to using Win10. Nothing operated better or faster. In fact, somethings did not operate/install at all. Of course I am not a gamer, so perhaps there are advantages for some that I would not know about.

Win7 is easier to operate and use. A couple of examples: the Win10 File Explorer is very complex to look at and understand, as compared to the Win7 version. Control panel usage is easier and more available under Win7.

Regarding updates: Forced updates, with Microsoft's history of updates breaking things, is not a good idea. That said, wait until they decide to send an update to Win7 that takes away the update choices - and it CAN be done!

If you are hots to trot to get Win10 - try to be patient. Perhaps in another six months the worst of the bugs will have been addressed and it will be safe to install and use. Just - not now!!!

Bill W2BLC
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AC2EU
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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2015, 09:04:40 AM »


You are a stalwart MS defender.  Do you work for MS?


Not at all but unlike you I understand the complexity of modern OSes and drivers and such for them and you think a new OS is like old MS DOS that does not need to be actively upgraded on drivers and patches as it evolves. If you have good hardware drivers will work fine but if it is crapware then you spin dice. You should go back to Win95 or 98 or maybe XP as it will never update but only/crash/trash to modern threats.

naw, they sucked too!
You allude to an important point, however.  Perhaps the problem is that the OS is so complex and bloated that NOBODY knows how it works anymore...not even you!
The users are then destined to endure an on going whack-a-mole bug scenario.
No "crapware" here, just Microsoft running on Microsoft, except for firefox and Adobe for daily chores. Even so, there are issues that crop up after updates. There is nothing wrong with updates in my book as long as they work and don't cause other problems.

If you DO understand how all of this works, maybe you SHOULD work for MS and help us all out.

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AA4PB
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2015, 11:16:23 AM »

"Perhaps the problem is that the OS is so complex and bloated that NOBODY knows how it works anymore..."

I think you are exactly right. A lot of software now days is so complex that it is written by teams of developers, each one working on a different part, and no single person has a handle on how it all works. Even relatively simple programs now days are written in high level languages where much of the underlying code in the program is placed there by a compiler so the individual who wrote the program doesn't even know exactly what code is in his program or exactly how that code works.

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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
N3DT
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Posts: 1323




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« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2015, 02:09:13 PM »

If I do go to w10 it will be at the last minute. I'm glad that some of you have enough interest to dig into the registry and figure things out. I have another life and can't spend it learning about an OS to make it work to my satisfaction, it should be up front for me. But thanks for that registry fix W8JX. I'll keep it in mind.

I did find a BITS registry fix to force downloading updates for MS between 2 and 8 AM and that works pretty good for me as I have 60GB/mo. at those times, I just don't know if it will work for w10, it's been discussed on the dslreports forum a bit for satellite users.
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W8JX
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« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2015, 05:05:29 PM »


You allude to an important point, however.  Perhaps the problem is that the OS is so complex and bloated that NOBODY knows how it works anymore...


Certainly you anyway. The computing world changed with advent or smart phone and then tablet and it can never go back to old XP type technology. Hardware is smarter too on power saving as well and alble to track email and updates while in standby mode with WIN 8x and above. PC needs to be able to blend fluidly with smart phone tablet world to survive much longer and Win 7 and beyond are not remotely up to task. It was conceived on drawing board about 10 years ago and a LOT has changed since. Some want to stay in a time warp and never upgrade and hope things do not change but you snooze you loose. MS has place a lot of focus on security and error fixes last few years and as WIN 10 launches and ties tighter to the cloud and the Web it increases its footprint to be attacked on. MS needs to make sure updates get out and are installed. To Apples credit, they mandate OS updates on most hardware and drop support for old OS to eliminate liabilities. Windows is spread across some much hardware and some many version that it is hard to keep it safe and secure. I do not look for a successor to 10 for many years as it has planned enhancements in pipeline. My guess is it will be replaced when Win 7 and OSes before it are laid to rest and no longer supported. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
N3DT
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Posts: 1323




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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2015, 07:43:45 PM »

Trouble with this cloud stuff, I'll give you an example. We had a kid with his smart phone and a Mac laptop into the house last month and he used the cloud with his computers. Now we've got 10GB/mo. limit during day hours. He used up 5GB in 5 days which used up our monthly allotment since we were close to the end. Luckily it was the day before it rolled over. I had to cut him off. He insisted he was not downloading a lot of stuff and I believe him, I think it was just that every time he came in the house his phone and computer started re-syncing everything and it used up big chunks of data, but I really don't know, I have no way of tracking his usage, only the 2 pc's we have. These people with unlimited data don't understand what they are using. That cloud stuff won't work for us on satellite systems as near as I can tell, and just because we live in an extremely rural area doesn't mean we're snoozing that much, it's just a different world out here. Plus there's no way I'm paying a cell company $100/mo for a 1GB data plan that doesn't work here.

Then there are families in ND with 3 families living in the town in the middle of nowhere and they have high speed internet, go figure. I think it's all political, like most of the country is living with right now. You got the money, you pay your politician and things get done.
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VK6IS
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« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2015, 01:01:23 AM »

it's not just in ND - as that applies to a whole lot of places,
- where OPs are on either that satellite setup, or worse on a 3g setup.
only once 4g arrives - will things settle down somewhat.

but - those OPs will still be on a lousy 10Gb/mth Sad
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AF6LJ
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Posts: 430




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« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2015, 06:25:01 PM »

Just a few thoughts;
For those who are not technically adapt maybe it is best if they have MS update their systems for them.
These days the updates are usually security related, and this would keep them out of trouble. MS doesn't blow an update very often. Just make your recovery disks and BACK UP YOUR DATA.

Win-10 does boot quite a bit faster than Win-7 does, and that is on a machine that has been running Solid state drives for four years now.

Gaming performance?
Not enough to notice.

Has it crashed?
A few times since last September, but hay it way bata software until today.

Would I go back to Win-7?
Nope...

As for ham related software I run some remote SDR software and some here and it all works fine.
So do all my other software applications.


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Take Care
Sue,
AF6LJ
N3DT
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Posts: 1323




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« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2015, 07:03:03 PM »

How fast does W10 boot? My W7 is up and ready in less than 60 seconds. 3.21GHz Dual core AMD, 8GB RAM, swap/paging file disabled. I'm still going to wait until near the end of the W10 offer if I do it.
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2015, 08:36:04 PM »

This is just my opinion but I think by now we all know that almost all Windows versions have reliability issues until they release the first service pack.  If your computer needs are minimal and you like toying with a new OS then go for it.  If you do mission critical work then it's always best to wait until service pack one comes out before upgrading.  I have no problems paying the $99 or whatever, so long as my applications continue to work.  If my current programs don't work and I am told I need to fork over several hundred dollars for new versions then I will be on Win7 for a long time to come.

73s
Rob
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
KD8MJR
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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2015, 08:43:41 PM »


Not even remotely related.  It does not auto install optional updates, only critical ones.

--SNIP--


JX this is were you and I have a major difference of opinion.
Who determines what is critical?  And if it is critical then tell me why and ask me if I want to accept the update.  It's just way to easy for MS to decide that a NAG screen telling me that Win7 is outdated is "Critical" and then do as they please.
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
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