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Author Topic: ZL7C  (Read 2233 times)
K3NRX
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« on: October 21, 2002, 08:53:37 AM »

WOW!!!!...What a great operation!....I was amazed at how easy it was to work Chatham!......Great to get a new one....anyone know how long they will be there???....Wrked on 10 & 12, would love to get 20!...

CUL
Vince P
ROMEO X-RAY!!!!
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NI0C
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2002, 11:17:36 AM »

Congratulations on working a new one on two bands so far.  For more information concerning the ZL7C expedition, check out their web site at:  www.qsl.net/zl7c/  You might also be interested in the DX Notebook website, full of useful links: www.dxer.org

Since you signed your message "Romeo X-Ray," I hope this is not how you sign yourself on the air!  Using only the last two letters of your callsign is not only illegal but it will also prevent you from getting many contacts.  Many DX operators will simply not respond to those who use their "last two" as identification.  For more info on DX operating practices, check out AA0MZ's web site:
www.qsl.net/aa0mz/

Again, good job on getting through to Chatham so early in the expedition, and good luck on more bands.  

73,  Chuck  NI0C
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2002, 05:11:41 PM »

They're doing well thus far, for sure.

I called CQ on 10.105 CW Saturday evening and they responded to me immediately, a new one for me on 30.

The Benin TX0 operation seems to hear very well, too...got through on a single call, Saturday, completed QSO in five seconds.  Great to have the bands back!

WB2WIK/6
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K3NRX
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2002, 08:34:22 PM »

Benin is one that I need...I will have to look for that one also!!!...thanks for the tid bit....

Hey NI0C...thanks for the congrats, but man, lighten up.....there ain't a pile up out there where operators are not shouting their last two letters at a dx station......and with a long call like mine, you do what you have to do to get thru....within the boundrys of good operating.....A "ROMEO X-RAY" in a heap of thousands (especially big loud KW Signals as opposed to my 100 watts and a G5RV) is NOT gonna bring the feds to my door!.....

Vince P
KA3NRX
Or In the Pile:
ROMEO X-RAY!!!!!
& if he comes back
Kilo Alfa 3 November Romeo X-RAY, 5 & 9 QSL?Huh.
Does that work for ya???

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K0RS
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2002, 05:04:16 AM »

"Or In the Pile:
                    ROMEO X-RAY!!!!!
                    & if he comes back
                    Kilo Alfa 3 November Romeo X-RAY, 5 & 9 QSL?Huh.
                    Does that work for ya???"

Well, it certainly doesn't work for contesters and most DX'ers.  What you're forcing them to do is make an  extra transmission just to get your complete callsign.  What's worse is the difficulty wtih logging.  If the station enters just the "RX" in his log, he then has to use an additonal keystroke(s) to return the cursor to the proper area in the field to complete your callsign.  At 200 Q's per minute, this is a bonafide pain in the ass and will earn you the undying enmity of any contester I know.  For any operation that is trying to achieve or maintain a decent rate, this practice is the hallmark of an inexperienced lid or DX net refugee.  It increases the chance for a typo error on your callsign, and then you're pissed when your QSL card comes back "NIL"...not in log.  Just because a bunch of other guys do it doesn't mean that you have to emulate their bad habits.  The "last two syndrome" is the amateur radio equivalent of "breaker breaker one-nine!" and using "QSL" as an affirmative response (or worse, an interrogation, "QSL?") on phone is just like saying "10-4 good buddy."

If you happen to be fortunate enough to hear 9K2ZZ in Kuwait someday, and want to work him for a new country, be forewarned...do NOT call him with "Romeo X-Ray."  He WILL work you as "Romeo X-Ray" and you may even get a QSL card for "RX."  Try submitting that card to the ARRL for DXCC.  

Please don't take me wrong...you obviously are free to conduct your operation any way you see fit, as long as you don't give a damn about what kind of image you project.  Hollingsworth, in one of his frequent fits of brain-fade,  has given his blessing to calling with only the  last two, as long as you fully identify wtihin the required 10 minutes.  Which you always do, right?  Of course he also said that identifying with phonetics was unacceptable, too.  Fortunately, he reneged on that one.  Just be aware that there is a significant number of hams, some of which you may desire to work someday, that find the practice not only distasteful, but unecessarily cumbersome.  They may just choose to ignore your call...now you know why.
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K3NRX
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« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2002, 11:04:22 AM »

Maybe I should change my call sign then, jeez....I really think you are reading to much into this, and I for one did NOT start this absurd debate....NOTHING Illegal is being done here....no one is calling anyone any names, no one is QRMing delibertly, or swearing or anything like this.....if this is the worst thing I ever do or anyone else does on ham radio, then I think we're doing pretty well, and some people need to pry something out of their someplace, and just relax!..I never would have thought that sending your last two or three letters in a pile-up, in the interest of breavity, would be the equivelent of being a poor operator..Give me a break!..This thread was supposed to be about ZL7C, but it had to be twisted into a lecture..Since that's the case, I am done with this topic!

Vince P
KA3NRX
or ROMEO X-RAY!!!!!!!!

Bye Now!
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NI0C
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2002, 12:02:10 PM »

Well, I guess "Romeo X-Ray" left this discussion, but there may be other of the "last two" crowd who may still believe their techniques are effective.  Consider this, however.  I am a member of the Mississippi Valley DX & Contest Club.  One of our members used to hold the call WD0CHW, quite a lengthy call on any mode.  The fellows who worked a lot of SSB used to greet him at club meetings with the phonetics: "Charlie  Hotel  Whiskey."  It seems that his call--because of its length-- stood out from their shorter extra class calls in the pileups-- he often got through before the others!  Don did not achieve the honor roll by bleating his "last two!"  This is all about technique and pride in operating, folks-- not to be taken personally!  These e-ham off-the-air discussions are a perfect opportunity to learn about more effective operating techniques.
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K0RS
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« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2002, 10:17:08 PM »

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.  

No, the "last two syndrome" isn't (usually) illegal.  And guys will probably continue to do it for a long, long time.

But that's no reason not to learn how...and why...to do it better.  This assuredly is NO lecture, but wouldn't you rather know ahead of time that some operators strenuously object to this silly and unecessary practice ?  Think about it.  Why in the world would you only give you last two letters instead of your complete call ?  If the DX op misses part of your call, he will ask for a fill.  But if he does get it completely on the first call, you've helped him, yourself, and everyone else calling by making the whole process a bit more efficient.  When you introduce yourself to someone, do you say "My name is ...ce," and make them ask for the rest ?!?

In a contest, I simply don't respond to partial calls.  Invariably, sooner or later, the station gives his complete callsign.  Then I respond  and he gets a report.  Hopefully this a a bit of (possibly subliminal)  positve reinforcement for doing it right.  
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K0RS
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« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2002, 10:27:19 PM »

It just occured to me that you are the same guy that was complaining just a few threads back about not receiving QSL cards in a timely manner.  Hmmmmm.....

Perhaps the DX stations are only finding "Romeo X-Ray" in their logs???
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K3NRX
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2002, 08:23:14 AM »

Fist of all, that statement about the DX station not responding to my qsl request because I sent my last two, is pure bunk!..(just so you know the 3D2CY card came on Monday, so that shoots down that theory)...Secondly, when I introduce myself, I introduce myself as VINCE....I have a last name, which once I get to know the person better, I will follow up with later.....Just like I follow up with KA3NRX after sending my last two or three in the inintal call (During the pile-up).........Would it be safe to say that most of you guys in this thread are running "big signal" stations???.....I am not.....would it be safe to say that some of you have short call signs.....I don't nor do I choose to.......Hence forth, I do what I do in the interest of breavity, and in the interest of trying to beat out the big guns to get the contact......If the DX station has a problem with it, then we can make ammends......You may think it's an unnecessary practice....or the equivelent of being a LID.....Sorry if you guys don't like it, but it's NOT illegal, it's done by many, and it gets me thru the pile-ups.....Let me guess, you guys are anti-DX nets too huh???....not to drum up a new can of worms, but I am curious....if it were not for DX nets, I probably would not have 1/2 the qsos and qsls that I do now!......and guess what, they ASK for your last two!!!!!!!!...GASP!!!!!!!....

CUL
VP
ROMEO X-RAY
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NI0C
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2002, 03:37:08 PM »

Vince,
Much of the thrill of cracking a dx pileup comes from decisions made in milliseconds concerning the correct timing and placement of your callsign, in other words, dealing with uncertainty in both the time and frequency domains.  This is particularly true in split-frequency pileups that are spread out over a range of frequencies.  The DX nets take away all that uncertainty-- you know exactly where to call, you are provided with a (relatively) clear frequency, and you are told when it is your turn to call.  Although some will disagree vehemently, net qso's are just as valid as anyone else's, provided no additional assistance was provided by the net.  For me, however, DX nets take away the fun in DX chasing, although I do often listen to them to check propagation, etc.  Because few (if any) of the techniques utilized in freelance DX work are employed on the nets, the nets provide little in the way of practicing and honing those techniques.
By the way, I've only used wire dipoles and vertical antennas and I worked my first 290 countries using 100 watts or less.

73 & Gl,

Chuck NI0C
 
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DL7IO
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2002, 08:38:31 AM »

Hello Vince,
please listen to a cw or rtty pile up. Nobody has the idea to call with the last 2 only. Everybody uses the full call sign. What K0RS told you is absolute correct.
I'm not a big DXpeditioner but I've done about 200.000 Q's over the past 10 years from all over the world     and the last 2 callers cost you time and QSO's for others. It may be a useful way in a net operation but for a pile up it is a very bad decission. As long as I hear stations with full callsigns calling me (even if they are weaker and I cannot get the full call!) I try to change the report with them. And I'm doing less SSB every time because of those bad operation practises in SSB.
73 Holger
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NX7U
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2002, 12:32:51 AM »

Back to the original topic...
Yes, ZL7C did a great job.  I kinda felt sorry for them in a sense, as it seems G3SXW and G3TXF gave out a lot of Q's only last year, but nevertheless they did a bang-up job and I'm sure lots of folks are happy.
Personally I was going for a "clean sweep" on this one from the mobile, but missed on 75m SSB. But got every other band-mode combo 80m-10m.  
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Scott NX7U in DM43
NI0C
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2002, 10:52:02 AM »

Well the FOC guys (G3SXW and G3TXF) did a great job  of providing CW contacts, but ZL7C gave me a new one on SSB.  I did miss them on 80 meters, though.  It was my own fault for not getting up during the wee hours.    
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N4SL
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2002, 07:55:07 PM »

At 200 Q's per minute, this is a bonafide pain in the ass and will earn you the undying enmity of any contester I know.

At 200 Q's a MINUTE this is the fastest op in the freakin' world!
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