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Author Topic: Linux  (Read 23114 times)
NM5TF
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Posts: 7


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« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2015, 07:40:23 AM »

I have found that ones attitude makes all the difference when posting on the various
forums......going in with the attitude of a "know it all" or a complainer is almost
guaranteed to get you nowhere fast... Roll Eyes

having said that, the best forum by far is the Ubuntu Forum as it is geared towards
Linux "noobs"......and we ALL were once "noobs" weren't we.... Grin

some of the other forums take the approach of "you are using an advanced version
of *nix here, and should be competent enough to solve your own problem; or at
least be able to search the archives without having to bother us with your silly noob
questions".. Shocked

I do agree with BLC about Linux Mint...of all the Debian based distros, MInt seems to be the
better choice...altho if they are not careful, it could become almost as bloated Ubuntu.. Cry
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Arch Linux, Fedora 22 Linux, Mint 17.2 Linux
my web page http://users.gilanet.com/~tfrost
W2BLC
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2015, 10:38:24 AM »

Mint also has an excellent forum - always quick to answer questions and offer excellent help. I have yet to experience any down-talking when anyone asks a question. Very refreshing.
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N0XAX
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Posts: 21




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« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2015, 09:40:17 PM »

I use Mint Linux 17.2 LTS and it is very stable. I still have an old xp machine running HRD for rig control. I have Kali LInux on my laptop. Linux has come a long way since the command line days!
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AF7JA
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Posts: 255




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« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2015, 06:22:08 AM »


having said that, the best forum by far is the Ubuntu Forum as it is geared towards
Linux "noobs"......and we ALL were once "noobs" weren't we.... Grin



Agreed, I have found the Ubuntu forums and, oddly enough, Mint, forums to be the most helpful and polite. This was something I disliked about the Linux forums in the 90's; back when I was giving it the hardest try. People in the forums were just plain rude.

Th most common answer to any question was, "you just need to edit your .config files." I quickly came to realize that, "you just need to edit your .config files." was Linux speak for, "I have no idea how to help you; but I just want to say something so that I can feel superior to you." The lack of support was one of the reasons I left Linux for may years. I had, at the time,over two feet of refrence manuals (and yes, I did read them) on my bookshelf; and stuff still wasn't working.

I am going to say that Linux is an entirely different world today.
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WW7KE
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Posts: 603




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« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2015, 09:36:16 PM »

Agreed, I have found the Ubuntu forums and, oddly enough, Mint, forums to be the most helpful and polite. This was something I disliked about the Linux forums in the 90's; back when I was giving it the hardest try. People in the forums were just plain rude.

That was back in the day when Linux was quasi-marketed as "a programmer's OS for programmers."  It was a case of zit-faced nerds with low self-esteem (not professional programmers, engineers, or IT folks) pretty much controlling the newsgroup and Slashdot dialog until the early 2000s.  Fortunately they didn't control the distros, and are nonentities today.  One can only hope that they grew up and became professionals.

Quote
Th most common answer to any question was, "you just need to edit your .config files." I quickly came to realize that, "you just need to edit your .config files." was Linux speak for, "I have no idea how to help you; but I just want to say something so that I can feel superior to you." The lack of support was one of the reasons I left Linux for may years. I had, at the time,over two feet of refrence manuals (and yes, I did read them) on my bookshelf; and stuff still wasn't working.

The other common answer was "RTFM" (Read The F#$%ing Manual), which meant "I have no time for pathetic feebs like you."  Again, that was the "nerds who live in Mom's basement" crowd, not professionals.  Besides, the manual or the online documentation wasn't always all that good.  Man pages have always been hit-and-miss, even going back to the ones in the AT&T Unix manuals from the '80s and '90s.

Quote
I am going to say that Linux is an entirely different world today.

Absolutely, thanks to the mainstream distros like Ubuntu and Mint, as well as corporate Red Hat and even politically-correct Debian.
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He speaks fluent PSK31...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!
N4OGW
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Posts: 422




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« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2015, 06:52:09 AM »

I'm a gentoo user. What I like about gentoo is that there are step-by-step guides on how to set up and maintain the a system. The problem I have with Ubuntu, Mint, etc is that while they have nice graphical tools for set up and management, I would usually find myself running into a case where the graphical tool failed and simply did not work. Then you have to go to google, forums, etc to figure out how to fix things manually, for which there was of course no documentation. If you install the gentoo way you learn how to do this.

Tor
N4OGW
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AC2EU
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« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2015, 09:41:34 AM »

I'm a gentoo user. What I like about gentoo is that there are step-by-step guides on how to set up and maintain the a system. The problem I have with Ubuntu, Mint, etc is that while they have nice graphical tools for set up and management, I would usually find myself running into a case where the graphical tool failed and simply did not work. Then you have to go to google, forums, etc to figure out how to fix things manually, for which there was of course no documentation. If you install the gentoo way you learn how to do this.

Tor
N4OGW

As always, the devil is in the details. Always make sure that the cards/chips in your computer are on the "supported" list of the OS
The same thing will happen if you try to run win10 on a 10 year old computers ( probably even 3 year old computer in win10's case).
Linux has a variety of GUI desktops available. Some are bare bones, others require serious horsepower. You have to choose according to your computer's capability and your needs. In this way, Linux is a bit of programmer's OS, but you will not find this kind of flexibility anywhere else. Not to mention the good security and lack of useless daemons running the background to rob performance.
Is is possible to run the current linux kernel on old computers, but it takes a bit more care ,research and work to do so.
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WW7KE
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Posts: 603




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« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2015, 05:15:00 PM »

I'm a gentoo user. What I like about gentoo is that there are step-by-step guides on how to set up and maintain the a system. The problem I have with Ubuntu, Mint, etc is that while they have nice graphical tools for set up and management, I would usually find myself running into a case where the graphical tool failed and simply did not work. Then you have to go to google, forums, etc to figure out how to fix things manually, for which there was of course no documentation. If you install the gentoo way you learn how to do this.

Tor
N4OGW

I've never tried Gentoo, but I have over 15 years of experience with Slackware and Debian.  They are similar in that you have to read documentation in order to install it properly.  For that reason none of them should be considered for mainstream, consumer use. 

I prefer Slackware on low-end hardware because it includes most required firmware needed to install everything.  The exception is the NVIDIA video driver, but they provide a binary that is not hard to install.  It's preferred to the nouveau (sp?) driver because the latter is still a bit unstable.  It's also supported with security updates for a very long time.  Only Red Hat/CentOS offers longer support, AFAIK.

Debian's terminal case of GNU Political Correctness prevents it being installed on many systems with WiFi.  A wired Ethernet port is pretty much required unless you can figure out which proprietary firmware is required for the WiFi chip, download it to a USB drive on another PC, then load it right after the install disk boots (when prompted). 

Once it's installed, it is as rock stable as Slackware or Red Hat/CentOS, and with a lot more software available.  But for ease of use, I recommend Linux Mint LTS distros for those who like to be Debian-based and have the hardware to support it.  Don't try it with nettops or netbooks with 2 Gb RAM or less -- too sluggish.
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He speaks fluent PSK31...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1293




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« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2015, 04:42:24 AM »


I've never tried Gentoo, but I have over 15 years of experience with Slackware and Debian.  They are similar in that you have to read documentation in order to install it properly.  For that reason none of them should be considered for mainstream, consumer use. 

Which operating systems should be installed without reading the documentation?  Using your criteria, Windows should not be used by mainstream consumer users.

These days Debian can be installed by basically hitting ENTER a bunch of times, as can most of the more popular distros. If you want to have different partitions, or hardware not supported by the installer, you will need to do some reading, but that is the same as Windows.
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
WW7KE
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Posts: 603




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« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2015, 08:53:53 AM »


I've never tried Gentoo, but I have over 15 years of experience with Slackware and Debian.  They are similar in that you have to read documentation in order to install it properly.  For that reason none of them should be considered for mainstream, consumer use. 

Which operating systems should be installed without reading the documentation?  Using your criteria, Windows should not be used by mainstream consumer users.

No OS should be installed by inexperienced, non-technical consumers.  Not Windows, Mac, Linux, nothing.  Mint, Ubuntu, and the like can be configured via a GUI to the user's liking, including installation of device drivers (kernel modules & firmware).  Gentoo, Slackware, and Debian for the most part cannot, although some parts can via their GUIs. 

But in too many cases, editing config files is necessary.  For example, it's impossible to boot Slackware directly into a graphical login screen without editing /etc/inittab and changing the Run Level from 3 (text screen) to 4 (GUI).  Most people won't have any idea what I'm talking about, let alone how to do it.  Adding more than one DNS server address also requires editing -- /etc/resolv.conf in this case.  These must be done as root, which can be dangerous if a mistake is made.

Quote
These days Debian can be installed by basically hitting ENTER a bunch of times, as can most of the more popular distros. If you want to have different partitions, or hardware not supported by the installer, you will need to do some reading, but that is the same as Windows.

Not if proprietary firmware is required.  Then you either have to get it on another PC, then copy it to the installation media, or the installation quits.  This is a Debian issue that most distros don't have anymore.

And, yes, Windows has/had the same issues, but it will still fully install.  Win7 is far better than XP in this regard; I've never tried to install 8 or 10.  Then you'll have to get the drivers manually.  Ubuntu and Mint have the ability to download and install all necessary firmware after installation if it doesn't pick it up while being installed.
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He speaks fluent PSK31...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!
KG7WBW
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Posts: 16




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« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2015, 09:15:17 PM »

Ubuntu 14.04, Windows 10, OS X.
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N9KX
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Posts: 2062




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« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2015, 08:01:24 PM »

I have a new PC which came with Windows 10 and i am ready to try Linux Mint.  At first I had trouble because i copied (rather than burning) Mint to a DVD and thus could not get my PC to boot from it.  I now have it on USB and before I take the plunge I have a question if anyone has the patience to answer it for me.  I created a 20 GB partition as recommended but before I run Linux -- since I have 1 TB and may end up using Windows very little -- should I have made it more like 500 GB?  Can I later change the size of the partition or is it a one and done thing? Or when I go to install Linux rather than running it from USB drive -- can I resize or remake a partition at that point?

Hope my questions are sensible ones Smiley  73
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 08:10:54 PM by W9KEY » Logged
VK6IS
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Posts: 307




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« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2015, 09:46:36 PM »

most would consider that a 20Gb partition is bit too small,
for daily use, as that size is more for testing a system,
where you won't do much with it. ..

so it's more like 50 - 100Gb for real usage.


you can I later change the size of the partition as isn't done thing.
but, you always have to do that from the live usb environment.
- not from the installed system.

if you post in their forum, you will get step by step guidance,
as that has been done before, by others.
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WW7KE
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Posts: 603




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« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2015, 08:06:28 AM »

I have a new PC which came with Windows 10 and i am ready to try Linux Mint.  At first I had trouble because i copied (rather than burning) Mint to a DVD and thus could not get my PC to boot from it.  I now have it on USB and before I take the plunge I have a question if anyone has the patience to answer it for me.  I created a 20 GB partition as recommended but before I run Linux -- since I have 1 TB and may end up using Windows very little -- should I have made it more like 500 GB?  Can I later change the size of the partition or is it a one and done thing? Or when I go to install Linux rather than running it from USB drive -- can I resize or remake a partition at that point?

Hope my questions are sensible ones Smiley  73

Your questions are perfectly legit.  I just installed Mint 17 alongside Windows 10 Pro on a HP Envy x360 laptop, and only had an issue with the WiFi (one module was loaded in error and has to be removed).  Here's what I did:

In Windows
1.  Run Computer Management, then click on Disk Management.  Your partitions will be displayed, with drive letters and without.  Your largest partition should be the C: drive, where Windows is installed.  Don't touch the others, or Windows won't be able to boot.

2.  Shrink that partition down by 100 Gb.  Windows will not allow data on the partition to be destroyed -- there will be a limit on how much space can be freed up.  Might be a good idea to defrag the drive first.

This will free up that space to install Linux, and actually, it'll be all you need (probably more, but you have the room).  Leave your files on the C: drive, as Mint will see that drive and your files will be available in both.  Mint can read and write to Windows partitions, but Windows cannot see Linux partitions at all.  Advantage:  Linux. Wink Grin

Do not partition the new space while in Windows.  It'll be split between the root partition and swap space when Linux is installed.

3.  Connect the Linux installation USB drive or insert the DVD into a USB DVD drive (this laptop doesn't have a DVD drive built in).

4.  Restart the PC.

At Reboot
1.  Press the key that allows the PC to enter BIOS/UEFI setup mode.

2.  Go to Advances Setup or Boot Mode (whichever it has), and turn UEFI Secure Boot off.  This is necessary to install Linux and doesn't affect the booting of Windows.

3.  Press F10 to save the changes.  The PC will reboot.

Linux Mint 17.3 Installation
1.  Allow the USB or DVD to run.  It'll load the Mint desktop the usual way.

2.  In the case of my HP laptop, there was no Wifi.  After a quick Google search, I found that the acer_wmi module had been loaded, which conflicted with the hp_wmi module and killed the WiFi.  It was not possible to enable WiFi with both modules installed. 

Open up a terminal window (you're already the Superuser, aka root, so be careful) and enter the following:
Code:
rmmod acer_wmi
 
That module will be removed and WiFi will be able to be turned on and set up.  No reboot is necessary or desired (it'll just reload the bad module).  The alternative is to use wired Ethernet, but an internet connection is necessary for a full installation.

3.  Double-click the Install Linux Mint icon and follow the instructions.  With one exception:

3a.  At the disk partitioning section, select Something Else.  This allows for a custom partitioning scheme (the default will wipe out all the Windows partitions and use the entire drive).

3b.  Set up the blank partition as a swap partition equal to your RAM size (just in case -- most PCs today will never hit it), and the rest as the root ( / ) partition.  Click on the Format checkbox to format the root partition (not available on Swap).

3c.  Select the Windows partition (the largest one), and click the Change button.  Set this as an NTFS partition, DO NOT FORMAT IT, and set the partition name to /windows.  This will allow Mint to see the Windows C: drive but not destroy it.

4.  Continue to install Mint per the instructions.  Disconnect the installation drive and reboot when prompted.

5.  After reboot and login, remove the acer_wmi module again if WiFi doesn't work.  I added the command into /etc/rc.local to make sure it doesn't get loaded. 

6.  Do any updates that are available, check for proprietary drivers (none required on the HP x360) and install the software of your choice.
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He speaks fluent PSK31...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!
AC7CW
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Posts: 1004




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« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2015, 11:56:32 AM »

My experience with asking questions on Linux forums was that people seemed to be there to torment me by misunderstanding my question and supplying all sorts of detailed explanations about irrelevant subjects. I was also told how things that turned out to be impossible were easy... I think that Linux forums attract a more intelligent level of trolls actually
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)
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