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Author Topic: Honda genterator quirky  (Read 43449 times)
AA4PB
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« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2015, 04:22:39 PM »

Another thing to watch out on some engines is the oil pressure sensor. I have a Generac that started right up but then died after a few seconds. It turned out that the oil sensor was defective causing the low oil protection circuit to disable the ignition.
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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
NA4IT
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« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2015, 04:28:55 AM »

Our radio club has a Honda ES6500 water cooled unit. They don't like alcohol gas. If you will simply treat each can of gas with the green colored Marine Sta-bil (yes, it does treat alcohol) your problems will be solved.
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K1ZJH
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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2015, 06:26:26 AM »

Most lawn equipment dealers have small cans of gas that is designed for engines going into long term storage. No alcohol, 50:1 mix, etc.  Not cheap, but running an engine dry, and adding a few ounces of the special fuel and running the engine for ten seconds again can save a lot of grief.  I think they make it for both 2 and 4 cycle engines. Any crap gas in the carb will cause problems sooner or later.  Even my big Generac developed problems after sitting idle for six months.

Pete

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W8JX
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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2015, 10:28:51 AM »

Our radio club has a Honda ES6500 water cooled unit. They don't like alcohol gas. If you will simply treat each can of gas with the green colored Marine Sta-bil (yes, it does treat alcohol) your problems will be solved.

You cannot "treat" alcohol. It does not go away when mixed with gas. Some alcohol in fuel is good as it can bind to water and to gas and remove moisture from system. Too high a concentration is hard on some fuel lines and seals though. I have long used alcohol/dry gas in 2 stroke and 4 stroke motors in winter with no side effects. It can prevent carb icing on snow blowers under extreme conditions.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 01:05:45 PM by W8JX » Logged

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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
K4JJL
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« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2015, 07:37:11 AM »

This is exactly why I use propane with my generator.  No carb to gunk up.  Fuel stores indefinitely.
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W8JX
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« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2015, 10:13:46 AM »

This is exactly why I use propane with my generator.  No carb to gunk up.  Fuel stores indefinitely.

A propane power generator with a 60 or 100 lb bottle for extended running would be nice especially it used a engine built for propane rather than a low compression gas engine designed for 87 octane merely converted to propane as nearly all do. Propane has like 110 plus octane and does best with 13 to 1 or higher compression ratios. Propane has about 30% less energy per gallon than gas so a converted gas motor will use more propane than gas but with proper design ie higher compression it could use same or less fuel making same power. Same with flex fuel engines, E85 has 108 minimum octane but engine has to tolerate 87 octane too so efficiency and power potential with E85 is not what it could be. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KG4RUL
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« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2015, 04:38:21 PM »

This is exactly why I use propane with my generator.  No carb to gunk up.  Fuel stores indefinitely.

A propane power generator with a 60 or 100 lb bottle for extended running would be nice especially it used a engine built for propane rather than a low compression gas engine designed for 87 octane merely converted to propane as nearly all do. Propane has like 110 plus octane and does best with 13 to 1 or higher compression ratios. Propane has about 30% less energy per gallon than gas so a converted gas motor will use more propane than gas but with proper design ie higher compression it could use same or less fuel making same power. Same with flex fuel engines, E85 has 108 minimum octane but engine has to tolerate 87 octane too so efficiency and power potential with E85 is not what it could be. 

But, the original post concerned a portable generator surging.  Propane is what I have for my Generac, 22KW unit but, it is bolted to the pad.
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W8JX
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« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2015, 04:43:03 PM »

  Propane is what I have for my Generac, 22KW unit but, it is bolted to the pad.

At 22kw it would not be easy to move even not bolted down.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
W8GP
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« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2015, 09:22:01 AM »

I always enjoy reading the expert diplomatic responses from 'JX.
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N9AOP
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« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2015, 08:33:17 AM »

JX is correct.  We have 4 30KW and one 60 KW on trailers at the county EMA.  Every one is a pain in the ass to move.
Art
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2015, 03:18:19 PM »

I have a Honda Eu3000Si Thats 12 years old.  It has over 450 hours of run time on it (Yes Installed a meter when I put it in)
It has worked flawlessly from day one.  Only thing I have ever changed is the oil/filter 4 times and the plugs twice.  The air filter always looks pristine and she runs perfectly.  I can turn her on at midnight and the neighbors don't even notice.

BTW thanks NA4IT, I just ordered some Marine Sta-bil because I am starting to see some rust stains on the bottom of the Gas tank.  The outside is pristine, looks like I bought it a month ago, but this new Gas is not good for the metal Tank.

73s
Rob
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
W8JX
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« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2015, 04:21:15 PM »

I am starting to see some rust stains on the bottom of the Gas tank.  The outside is pristine, looks like I bought it a month ago, but this new Gas is not good for the metal Tank.

You are seeing rust stains from condensation forming inside tank as climate changes and water pools in spots in bottom of tank causing rust. A easy way to prevent this is always mix a little dry gas (methyl or Isopropyl alcohol) with fuel. Alcohol has molecular bonding that allow it to bond with both water and gasoline and suspends water in fuel and allows it to pass thru and be removed. A have done this for many years.  Keeping tank full when not in use will also minimize condensation formation.  STA-BIL contains no alcohol and will do nothing to remove water and prevent rust. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KD8MJR
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Posts: 5074




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« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2015, 05:28:25 PM »

I am starting to see some rust stains on the bottom of the Gas tank.  The outside is pristine, looks like I bought it a month ago, but this new Gas is not good for the metal Tank.

You are seeing rust stains from condensation forming inside tank as climate changes and water pools in spots in bottom of tank causing rust. A easy way to prevent this is always mix a little dry gas (methyl or Isopropyl alcohol) with fuel. Alcohol has molecular bonding that allow it to bond with both water and gasoline and suspends water in fuel and allows it to pass thru and be removed. A have done this for many years.  Keeping tank full when not in use will also minimize condensation formation.  STA-BIL contains no alcohol and will do nothing to remove water and prevent rust.  

I always keep the tank full but I guess my genny was made before the new blended gases became mandatory.
So if the tank is about 5 gallons then how much Isopropyl are you suggesting to add?  That will get rid of the water but leave the rust stains?  I figure I would have to empty the tank and clean them off if I wanted to get rid of them.  Any suggestions on a coating after I buff them out?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 05:31:47 PM by KD8MJR » Logged

“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
W8JX
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Posts: 12372




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« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2015, 06:41:15 PM »


I always keep the tank full but I guess my genny was made before the new blended gases became mandatory.
So if the tank is about 5 gallons then how much Isopropyl are you suggesting to add?  That will get rid of the water but leave the rust stains?  I figure I would have to empty the tank and clean them off if I wanted to get rid of them.  Any suggestions on a coating after I buff them out?


Its not blended gas directly causing problem. I generally use Methanol a few ounces to gallon in winter. Isopropanol can bond with more water per ounce than Methanol so maybe 1 ounce or so to gallon. If you can actually see water in tank double or triple dosage and burn tank fairly low before refilling. Rust in there now will not cause further problems or get any worse if you keep water in check with dry gas. Aircraft always have sumps in their tanks that are drained to check for water in fuel before flight. Years ago when I used to fly small planes I remember checking sumps on tanks before each flight. They used to keep a small sight bowl with a tool on it to open sump drain and catch fuel and you could look through it for traces of water.  I have seen them tap a few gallons of water out of a large military aircraft. It was pretty common in tanks holding a few thousand gallons of fuel or more.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 05:33:07 AM by W8JX » Logged

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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
K6BRN
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Posts: 564




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« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2015, 10:24:48 PM »

The symptoms the OP mentioned are classic clogged carb jet syndrome that can happen on any non-fuel injected small generator.  Its largely driven by alcohol and pollution control additives gelling in old gas.  Shelf life of modern gas in CA (mixes vary by state and county) is about 3 months.  Just fill the tank with gas, run the generator for a few minutes and then let it sit for 6 months to a year, and there you go.  Clogged jets.  In the early stages, closing the choke slightly can help stabilize the engine.  But the jets are already clogged.  Sta-Bil may help gas last 6 months, but in my experience, not much longer.

Most mechanics charge about $75 to clean the jets - its a staple service where I live.  Need to drop the float bowl, unscrew the jet column, drop into carb cleaner for a day (without O-rings or any rubber), then ream out the orifices with a copper wire.  Plenty of YouTube videos on how to do this.  If the problem is just starting to happen, try SeaFoam in the gas for 1 or 2 full fill/run dry cycles.  If that does not help, time to take the carb apart.

Regarding Honda generators - nothing but good to say about them.  I use them for backup power to carry my house through outages, of which we have about 4 per year, and for mobile operations.  The EU6500is runs forever on a tank, its power quality seems better than mains power, and its very quiet - no problem with the neighbors when running it 24/7.  My EU1000is is similar and weighs only 28 lbs, but only provides 900-1000 watts.

The new EU7000is is fuel injected, and is supposed to resist clogging due to old gas.

Regarding ChiCo generators - you really do get what you pay for.  Good luck.
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