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Author Topic: Intel layoffs due to falling PC sales.  (Read 20656 times)
W8JX
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« on: April 19, 2016, 04:59:34 PM »

Intel announced it will lay off 11% of its workforce world wide because on slumping PC sales. Intel have not been able to fully transition to new smart phone/tablet platform with its processors and has not been able to make up for lost PC sales. It might be possible that x86 processors may become a casualty as well one day too and with it Windows as smart phones and tablet are dominated by ARM processors and MS is still banking on x86 even in mobile. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
VE3HIX
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 08:42:25 AM »

Intel may also be victims of their own success, as some used Windows business laptops are in very good shape and can be purchased at dealers who traditionally sell new computers. These machines normally come with a legitimate copy of Windows 7 Professional and can be updated to Windows 10 Pro. When people buy used instead of new, the effect on chipset manufacturers is obvious.

Cheers,
Bob VE3HIX
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AC7CW
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 10:48:21 AM »

Intel may also be victims of their own success, as some used Windows business laptops are in very good shape and can be purchased at dealers who traditionally sell new computers. These machines normally come with a legitimate copy of Windows 7 Professional and can be updated to Windows 10 Pro. When people buy used instead of new, the effect on chipset manufacturers is obvious.

Cheers,
Bob VE3HIX


True 'dat. Intel and the computer manufacturers have so overshot the mark on what is needed that it's incredible. Fairly old processors are still good for 99% of tasks. Powerful Lenovo win7 pro laptops are $150-$200 from ebay. I just grab those and dedicate them to specific purposes and swap them into a $20 [ebay is truly wonderful] docking station with lots of extra plugs. I can dedicate different usb backup sticks to different laptops and leave them plugged into the dock, dedicate different hardware firewalls to different laptops and it's all transparent, just pop a laptop into the dock and it's all configured and good to go. I'm maxed out at three right now, surfing, business, and play with linux.. I can cannibalize parts if any of the hardware stops working even...
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)
W8JX
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2016, 04:14:26 PM »

Intel may also be victims of their own success, as some used Windows business laptops are in very good shape and can be purchased at dealers who traditionally sell new computers. These machines normally come with a legitimate copy of Windows 7 Professional and can be updated to Windows 10 Pro. When people buy used instead of new, the effect on chipset manufacturers is obvious.

Cheers,
Bob VE3HIX


True 'dat. Intel and the computer manufacturers have so overshot the mark on what is needed that it's incredible. Fairly old processors are still good for 99% of tasks. Powerful Lenovo win7 pro laptops are $150-$200 from ebay. I just grab those and dedicate them to specific purposes and swap them into a $20 [ebay is truly wonderful] docking station with lots of extra plugs. I can dedicate different usb backup sticks to different laptops and leave them plugged into the dock, dedicate different hardware firewalls to different laptops and it's all transparent, just pop a laptop into the dock and it's all configured and good to go. I'm maxed out at three right now, surfing, business, and play with linux.. I can cannibalize parts if any of the hardware stops working even...

It not old processors in a longer life span, it is decreasing PC sales because of tablet and smartphone boom. Intel has not had the success it hoped for in that new market. The ARM processor dominates that market. Initially MS planned to fully support ARM with WIN 8x and then 10 but they later back pedaled and decided to only support x86 (Intel loyalty) and not upgrade Surface and Surface 2 ARM powered Windows tablets with 10 and spend no more development time on it. I think it was a big mistake. MS screwed up too calling ARM tablet OS "Windows" too which added to confusion at roll out as they expected it to use WIN apps. Apple did not try to run Mac apps on tablets and named OS so it was clearly different to avoid confusion.
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W1VT
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2016, 06:27:47 PM »

Nothing new--when I was deciding on a career I knew someone who laid out IC chips and got cut in the 1970s downturn.

Zack W1VT
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VE3HIX
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2016, 06:35:25 PM »

...And to add to the confusion, I believe that an inexpensive Windows 10 tablet can run all Windows programs, but an expensive Windows 10 phone can only run programs from the Windows store. The pickings there are pretty slim compared to the iOS and Android stores.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I would love to see a Windows 10 phone run some heavy duty commercial software (and ham software).

Cheers,
Bob VE3HIX
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AC7CW
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2016, 07:51:57 PM »

Intel may also be victims of their own success, as some used Windows business laptops are in very good shape and can be purchased at dealers who traditionally sell new computers. These machines normally come with a legitimate copy of Windows 7 Professional and can be updated to Windows 10 Pro. When people buy used instead of new, the effect on chipset manufacturers is obvious.

Cheers,
Bob VE3HIX


True 'dat. Intel and the computer manufacturers have so overshot the mark on what is needed that it's incredible. Fairly old processors are still good for 99% of tasks. Powerful Lenovo win7 pro laptops are $150-$200 from ebay. I just grab those and dedicate them to specific purposes and swap them into a $20 [ebay is truly wonderful] docking station with lots of extra plugs. I can dedicate different usb backup sticks to different laptops and leave them plugged into the dock, dedicate different hardware firewalls to different laptops and it's all transparent, just pop a laptop into the dock and it's all configured and good to go. I'm maxed out at three right now, surfing, business, and play with linux.. I can cannibalize parts if any of the hardware stops working even...

It not old processors in a longer life span, it is decreasing PC sales because of tablet and smartphone boom. Intel has not had the success it hoped for in that new market. The ARM processor dominates that market. Initially MS planned to fully support ARM with WIN 8x and then 10 but they later back pedaled and decided to only support x86 (Intel loyalty) and not upgrade Surface and Surface 2 ARM powered Windows tablets with 10 and spend no more development time on it. I think it was a big mistake. MS screwed up too calling ARM tablet OS "Windows" too which added to confusion at roll out as they expected it to use WIN apps. Apple did not try to run Mac apps on tablets and named OS so it was clearly different to avoid confusion.

I've always thought of Microsoft as a bad organization that succeeded because they were in the right place at the right time with mediocre quality but managed to capture center stage attention while a lot of real talent was on the sideline. High quality software is somewhat of a rarity maybe... I've worked with a CAD package that was very expensive and very buggy. They only accepted bug reports that caused a complete crash, nothing else had any priority. Recently I've worked in a financial programming environment wherein I can report a problem and it's fixed within a day or two so I know that it can be done, I just think that most organizations accept a low quality for their products and consumers think that it is acceptable that all software is going to have some perma-bugs or a months long time horizon to get a fix.

RISC processors are interesting: essentially instead of designing complexity into the chip the complexity
is moved into the compiler. It makes sense that they would be a big part of the future because the compiler development is less limited, more flexible, scales up better economically... a parallel idea is how radio receiving capabilities have been moved out of hardware and into software in SDR. If  firmware level capabilities are needed in hardware it can be burned into a programmable array rather than designed into a wafer of chips. It adds up that the future for Intel's x86 stuff is limited and has been for a lot of years I guess...
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)
W8JX
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2016, 03:31:04 AM »

RISC processors are interesting: essentially instead of designing complexity into the chip the complexity
is moved into the compiler. It makes sense that they would be a big part of the future because the compiler development is less limited, more flexible, scales up better economically... a parallel idea is how radio receiving capabilities have been moved out of hardware and into software in SDR. If  firmware level capabilities are needed in hardware it can be burned into a programmable array rather than designed into a wafer of chips. It adds up that the future for Intel's x86 stuff is limited and has been for a lot of years I guess...

The battle of RISC and CISC CPU's has gone on for many years. Both have their advantages. RISC has simpler silicon that scales easier and has a lower power signature while CISC is easier to program for as it support many functions that have to be emulated in software on a RISC CPU. For many years Apple used RISC CPU's in its MAC's and praised the logic of doing so before quietly switching to CISC for better component selection options and to be able to allow dual boot to Windows.

I have a tablet that runs Windows 8.1 written for ARM processor (It is powered by a snapdragon CPU) It has a much smaller memory foot print than x86 version (400 vs 800 mb) and is very thrifty on power usage and can sleep for over a week on a charge. But MS decided not to develop it further and orphaned OS and is not upgrading it to 10 though it will still receive full support for at least a few more years. I like it better than regular Windows on a tablet as it is truly written for it and I use it often. MS never threw its full weight behind developing apps for it like Apple did with IOS (because of MS loyalty to Intel) so it never gained traction and the name, as I stated earlier, implied that it was "Windows" when it was not and therefore did not run legacy apps. I sometimes wonder if MS wrote its ARM version to motivate Intel to make mobile CPU's and had it for a plan "B" if Intel failed to deliver and MS would further develop its ARM tablet OS. In the end MS is a victim of its own success because it is so tied to x86 and legacy apps it does not know how to function without it which may kill it one day if ARM/RISC becomes main force in future.  
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 05:31:15 AM by W8JX » Logged

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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
AC6CV
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2016, 07:51:11 AM »

I have noticed recently a lot of used business windows 7 machines on the market at really cheap prices. Take your pick for not much more than $100. For less than $200 I can have a good CPU & partitioned for windows 7 and Linux. Most home users just sending emails, & keeping track of finances don't need much more than that. I don't send snail mail any more so only need a word processor to copy CW Grin
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W8JX
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2016, 02:26:11 PM »

I have noticed recently a lot of used business windows 7 machines on the market at really cheap prices. Take your pick for not much more than $100. For less than $200 I can have a good CPU & partitioned for windows 7 and Linux. Most home users just sending emails, & keeping track of finances don't need much more than that. I don't send snail mail any more so only need a word processor to copy CW Grin

They  are cheap due to lack of demand for them as demand sets price. PC market is shrinking.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KJ4TX
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 09:12:20 PM »

Intel only has to hold out for Y3K and everyone has to replace their computers because the old ones will stop working.  Wink

The way that Tax Exempt Intel has been causing my part of Oregon to be built up with my tax dollars based on it's promise of expansion, I'm not all that sympathetic. With the traffic the way it is, we could stand to lose a few of the Intel workforce.  The estimate from the Hillsboro area is 800 people. I don't know how many are from their contractor workforce vs. their full time employees. It probably depends on where they can save the most dollars.

Mike
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KOP
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2016, 12:16:02 AM »

CF-30CQQACBM - OS: Linux 3.11.0-12-generic/i686 - Distro: Linux Mint 16 Petra - CPU: 2 x Intel Core Duo (1600.000 MHz) - Processes: 167 - Uptime: 16h 35m - Users: 3 - Load Average: 0.45 - Memory Usage: 670.86MB/992.74MB (67.58%) - Disk Usage: 4.09GB/72.73GB (5.62%)

So why , when i have a near indestructible Panasonic ToughBook , that does everything I need it to do (except windows ~sic) , why would I drop $1K on an i5 mobile that comes with M$hit 10 ?

Just points to "too good for their own good" . I saw this coming in 2000 as did many Intel developers @ Dupont WA .

OS: Linux 3.2.0-4-amd64/x86_64 - Distro: Debian 7.8 - CPU: 8 x Intel Xeon (3000.000 MHz) - Processes: 210 - Uptime: 33d 21h 41m - Users: 4 - Load Average: 0.22 - Memory Usage: 2463.80MB/32247.37MB (7.64%) - Disk Usage: 2189.84GB/3948.30GB (55.46%)

The above is a XW8600 3g quad x2 32g mem and a software raid . EOL was approximately 2007 . It was acquired for $200 boot only . The memory was $250 . The 8 1T drives in RAID 6 were fair market used ($40 ea ?) . Compare this with a dual processor 1.8 GHz Power Mac G5 desktop starting at $2,499 and it becomes clear that intel as well apple are on some serious drugs .

Intel at least recognizes the problem while apple users just keep drinking the kool-aid .

~kop
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KD8TUT
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2016, 01:07:59 AM »

I have noticed recently a lot of used business windows 7 machines on the market at really cheap prices. Take your pick for not much more than $100. For less than $200 I can have a good CPU & partitioned for windows 7 and Linux. Most home users just sending emails, & keeping track of finances don't need much more than that. I don't send snail mail any more so only need a word processor to copy CW Grin

They  are cheap due to lack of demand for them as demand sets price. PC market is shrinking.

John, I've got the debunk your analysis here.

The PC and x86 processors are not going anywhere. The issues involved are ignored by the tech press, and apparently you as well, and they are somewhat nuanced.

The PC isn't failing, we're reaching the logical conclusion of "Moore's Law"- we do not see 40-100% increases in IPC on new chips. Which means people do not need to replace the computer every 2 years. Performance for silicon is topping off.

Just 10 years ago a three year upgrade cycle could net a 100-150% increase in performance- depending on IPC and clock speed. Those days are over.

High end computers, however, are selling. That's because people who do heavy computer work are interested in incremental performance increases. A three year upgrade cycle might net as little as a 20% performance increase. But a consumer doesn't need that 20% increase- hence a longer upgrade cycle and drop in processor sales.

PCs will continue until we're both dead (at minimum) for professional and prosumer applications. Even if demand is down- it's still an 80 billion dollar market this year.

So PCs are not being abandoned.

What is happening, is people who do lightweight things with computers are being shed off to the tablet and "device" market. In short- people who really do not need a PC- are being given cute bunny enhanced tablets for their e-mail and Facebook addictions.

While the market for PCs might contract a bit, it's not going anywhere. And if a new killer app comes around, it might see a resurgence- I'm betting that VR will be that killer app.

And let's not forget the GPU revolution which is happening....
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W8JX
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2016, 04:17:58 AM »

PC market is shrinking and to suggest otherwise is being in denial. Many have turned to tablets and smart phones for tasks that they used to use PC's for. I am posting this with a tablet. I have not used a laptop for several days. When I use a laptop it is usually touch screen one. It is far quicker to grab a tablet and take it with you than a laptop and instant on too.
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KD8TUT
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2016, 04:55:24 AM »

PC market is shrinking and to suggest otherwise is being in denial. Many have turned to tablets and smart phones for tasks that they used to use PC's for. I am posting this with a tablet. I have not used a laptop for several days. When I use a laptop it is usually touch screen one. It is far quicker to grab a tablet and take it with you than a laptop and instant on too.

As usual- you didn't read or consider what I wrote.

I'm used to it.
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