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Author Topic: Intel layoffs due to falling PC sales.  (Read 20676 times)
W8JX
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2016, 07:29:52 AM »

PC market is shrinking and to suggest otherwise is being in denial. Many have turned to tablets and smart phones for tasks that they used to use PC's for. I am posting this with a tablet. I have not used a laptop for several days. When I use a laptop it is usually touch screen one. It is far quicker to grab a tablet and take it with you than a laptop and instant on too.

As usual- you didn't read or consider what I wrote.

I'm used to it.

I read it. You are in denial of where we are moving. Funny how Intel knows it and you do not accept it. It has lost revenues to ARM sales to tablet/smartphone market that it has not been able to grab a large share of as people MOVE AWAY from PC's.

You probably think dead end Win 7 is a good investment for future too.   
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K7EXJ
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2016, 07:53:50 AM »

As usual- you didn't read or consider what I wrote.

I'm used to it.

I agree with your analysis. Business users still overwhelmingly use desktops and towers - the traditional "PC" - in the same numbers as ever. They are not likely to be using tablets and smart phones at their desks to do spreadsheets and business correspondence (I can only imagine what auto-correct would do). They often postpone replying to email until they get back to a kb and mouse.

In fact, the failures of Windows 8 and 8.1 were directly attributed to the inconvenience of using touch screens in a business environment. MS abandons this market at their peril.

Business users who work at their desks in offices or cubes very seldom even substitute laptops at their workplace. When they need a new PC they generally buy from Dell or HP and I wipe their old device and move it down the line to new users.

Even when they open new offices they generally now have a stock of cast-off PCs that are still perfectly usable that they can put into use for new employees. Some clients have hundreds. They routinely try to make me take them, in fact. (I have a couple Linux boxes with seriously good hardware that is far from outmoded but "looks clunky in my office.) God bless 'em.

But I do see that managers and executives are buying mobile devices to keep them connected with work and friends simultaneously when not in the office. (In fact, that has become one of my major headaches; before they wanted to keep their two lives separate but now, not so much.) Actually, even *I* do that, now. And I also have a smartwatch (Droid) to give me early notice of emails and texts (which are more and more used by my clients to contact me).

So the "market" for new PCs shrinks but the USE of PCs grows slightly and the market for mobile devices expands. But even Apple is discovering that the market for mobile devices is also becoming saturated.

Anyone who equates business PC use with their home environment is naive in the extreme.

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73s de K7EXJ
Craig Smiley
KD8TUT
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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2016, 08:06:36 AM »

PC market is shrinking and to suggest otherwise is being in denial. Many have turned to tablets and smart phones for tasks that they used to use PC's for. I am posting this with a tablet. I have not used a laptop for several days. When I use a laptop it is usually touch screen one. It is far quicker to grab a tablet and take it with you than a laptop and instant on too.

As usual- you didn't read or consider what I wrote.

I'm used to it.

I read it. You are in denial of where we are moving. Funny how Intel knows it and you do not accept it. It has lost revenues to ARM sales to tablet/smartphone market that it has not been able to grab a large share of as people MOVE AWAY from PC's.

You probably think dead end Win 7 is a good investment for future too.   

No- I think Linux is the future. And I have no emotional attachment to the issue.

And I think you are still missing the point. But you think in black and white, and tend to miss nuance- I understand that.

When your tablet can render video, compile software, provide emulation (on a meaningful level), run 30 applications while watching a movie, render 3d graphics, or run an SDR client, plus logging, plus digi software, plus sat tracking- then *maybe* you're "kind of sort of right".

You see John, the tablet is a toy. It's designed as an appliance for communication. You cannot even type a long document on it efficiently. You cannot do serious computing on it. Hell I own the fastest tablet made by anyone (nVidia Shield) and when you write software for it, you emulate the tablet on a PC. It barely handles Skype video. It's a dog.

So the PC is simply shedding users who do not need a computer. But the desktop computer will continue to exist.

And you might eat your words next year- since VR is taking off. That requires at least 8 threads and the equivalent of nVidia GTX 980 in order to get acceptable performance. That's never going to fit in a (tablet form factor)

So the PC is not going anywhere. However, the PC business is going to change drastically.
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KD8TUT
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« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2016, 08:17:05 AM »

As usual- you didn't read or consider what I wrote.

I'm used to it.

I agree with your analysis. Business users still overwhelmingly use desktops and towers - the traditional "PC" - in the same numbers as ever. They are not likely to be using tablets and smart phones at their desks to do spreadsheets and business correspondence (I can only imagine what auto-correct would do). They often postpone replying to email until they get back to a kb and mouse.

In fact, the failures of Windows 8 and 8.1 were directly attributed to the inconvenience of using touch screens in a business environment. MS abandons this market at their peril.

Business users who work at their desks in offices or cubes very seldom even substitute laptops at their workplace. When they need a new PC they generally buy from Dell or HP and I wipe their old device and move it down the line to new users.

Even when they open new offices they generally now have a stock of cast-off PCs that are still perfectly usable that they can put into use for new employees. Some clients have hundreds. They routinely try to make me take them, in fact. (I have a couple Linux boxes with seriously good hardware that is far from outmoded but "looks clunky in my office.) God bless 'em.

But I do see that managers and executives are buying mobile devices to keep them connected with work and friends simultaneously when not in the office. (In fact, that has become one of my major headaches; before they wanted to keep their two lives separate but now, not so much.) Actually, even *I* do that, now. And I also have a smartwatch (Droid) to give me early notice of emails and texts (which are more and more used by my clients to contact me).

So the "market" for new PCs shrinks but the USE of PCs grows slightly and the market for mobile devices expands. But even Apple is discovering that the market for mobile devices is also becoming saturated.

Anyone who equates business PC use with their home environment is naive in the extreme.



Well said... and better phrased than my comments. I appreciate you adding your voice.

There's also that VR application- probably a killer app. It's being presented at the moment to computer gamers. But it's application is endless and there's no console on the market with enough processing to drive a VR headset- let alone a tablet or laptop.

In one case there's a new VR headset that uses an android phone for display. Just display. That's an ironic twist.

The other one is the Occulus VR- which is it's own system.

When schools, military, engineering, and other disciplines get ahold of this it's going to bust the market for high performance PCs wide open.
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AC7CW
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2016, 05:59:12 PM »

Some Microsoft history from a former VP https://www.quora.com/session/Brad-Silverberg/1
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K0JEG
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« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2016, 09:00:19 AM »

I've always thought of Microsoft as a bad organization that succeeded because they were in the right place at the right time with mediocre quality but managed to capture center stage attention while a lot of real talent was on the sideline. High quality software is somewhat of a rarity maybe... I've worked with a CAD package that was very expensive and very buggy. They only accepted bug reports that caused a complete crash, nothing else had any priority. Recently I've worked in a financial programming environment wherein I can report a problem and it's fixed within a day or two so I know that it can be done, I just think that most organizations accept a low quality for their products and consumers think that it is acceptable that all software is going to have some perma-bugs or a months long time horizon to get a fix.

Last year I decided to divorce myself from Google as much as practical. Part of that move was to set up my own email server. I decided on a virtual Exchange server from Microsoft. I'm very happy with the result. It is every bit as "everywhere" as gmail, pushing email, calendar and notes out to my Macbook, iPad and iPhone. The reasonable yearly fee (no advertising) includes Skype for business and One Note. At first I didn't do anything with One Note, but after trying it out I'm a convert. It is fantastic for keeping projects organized and gathering information in one place. The iPad version just added support for the Apple Pencil. I just wish my coworkers knew it existed...

Anyway, sorry for sounding like an ad for Microsoft, but I just wanted to point out they do have some very good products. Satya Nadella seems to be saying the right things, focusing more on producing products instead of selling "me too" platforms. And MS is in a place where they have to be extremely careful about innovating. Any time they try something new, especially with user interfaces, the backlash from the users is brutal. Apple has done some pretty stupid things over the years and we users seem to get used to it and move on. Not Windows users.

That said, the ribbon UI on Office was a confusing mess. And the way it was rolled out was completely wrong...
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KD8MJR
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« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2016, 10:07:44 AM »


I agree with your analysis. Business users still overwhelmingly use desktops and towers - the traditional "PC" - in the same numbers as ever. They are not likely to be using tablets and smart phones at their desks to do spreadsheets and business correspondence (I can only imagine what auto-correct would do). They often postpone replying to email until they get back to a kb and mouse.

In fact, the failures of Windows 8 and 8.1 were directly attributed to the inconvenience of using touch screens in a business environment. MS abandons this market at their peril.

Business users who work at their desks in offices or cubes very seldom even substitute laptops at their workplace. When they need a new PC they generally buy from Dell or HP and I wipe their old device and move it down the line to new users.

Even when they open new offices they generally now have a stock of cast-off PCs that are still perfectly usable that they can put into use for new employees. Some clients have hundreds. They routinely try to make me take them, in fact. (I have a couple Linux boxes with seriously good hardware that is far from outmoded but "looks clunky in my office.) God bless 'em.

But I do see that managers and executives are buying mobile devices to keep them connected with work and friends simultaneously when not in the office. (In fact, that has become one of my major headaches; before they wanted to keep their two lives separate but now, not so much.) Actually, even *I* do that, now. And I also have a smartwatch (Droid) to give me early notice of emails and texts (which are more and more used by my clients to contact me).

So the "market" for new PCs shrinks but the USE of PCs grows slightly and the market for mobile devices expands. But even Apple is discovering that the market for mobile devices is also becoming saturated.

Anyone who equates business PC use with their home environment is naive in the extreme.


Well said and very true.  I think JX has been out of the loop so long he has no clue whats going on in the office environment.  It was interesting that when we got in a new printer the other day and the first driver listed in the manuals links were Win7 then Win10 and lastly Win8.1 this was a printer made in Feb 2016.  I think even the manufactures have a clear idea of what most of their customers will be using during the sales life of that product.

Also desperation has now set in on the part of the higher powers, they cannot get enough people to install Win10 so that they can have free access to their PC's.  So as reported before they have recruited Intel and they have made it so that Win 7 can no longer access  both USB2 and USB3 ports on the latest PC's.  When you wipe Win 10 and install Win7 everything works fine until you get to the last part to set the Language and date etc and then you realize you have no longer have keyboard or mouse control.  Once USB port control is handed over from the Bios to the Win7 OS your SOL on using the USB ports.   So one of our Techs spent a few hours integrating drivers that were ripped from Win10 and put them into a new Win7 installation CD and the problem was fixed.  BTW it did not work as an additional installation driver which Win7 allows you to specify during the start of installation, so the guy went back to the drawing board and hacked the hell out of the Win7 disk to fool it into using the Win10 USB driver as if it was the normal driver.  On further reading we see that this is an "enhancement" to the intel chipset and they have no plans on supporting Win7 with that enhancement.  Well luckily we now have an installation disk that fixes the problem.  I am pretty sure Techs at most companies have already done the same, so its back to yee old drawing board for MS.   I think they need to understand that we all want to update to Win10 but they need to get rid of the spyware and start charging for the OS instead of having companies being forced to accept that spyware is running on their systems.

73s
Rob




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KX4OM
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« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2016, 02:00:45 PM »

I'm kind of rolling a few things together here from this thread. The workstation PC cannot currently be replaced by the tablet. An example is the HMO that I belong to. Every desk, every counter, every visit room, every pharmacy station and every hospital bed has one of the standing-on-its-side "desktop" format PCs running Windows. A year ago, they were Windows 7 machines; now new boxes running Windows 10. A hospital employee is able to drop in a DVD from another hospital with X-Rays, for one example. They are of course connected to a server cluster, and they perform a similar function that a terminal did a few decades ago.

Hospitals and medical offices aren't the only service industry that uses PCs as data terminals. Banks, airlines, car rental agencies, government agencies (the police, for local examples) consume them in quantity. When I worked in engineering and project management, laptops served the same purpose, as I had to be able take the job with me.

Could I have used a tablet, in the case of the PM job? Yes, but I really needed a keyboard for compiling spreadsheets and writing reports. Could physicians and nurses carry tablets from patient to patient? Yes, but in my opinion, that would not be as convenient as the terminal/PC workstation.

Those vertical PCs are the ones that you see in quantity at places like Microcenter for under $200, wiped and with a new OEM install of Windows 7 or 8. As use of the tablet becomes more widespread, *some* of the market for traditional PCs will diminish. Users will be more familiar with tablet use at earlier ages and not see the need to transition to a desktop-only environment.

I don't think that there will be a sudden abandonment of the desktop in favor of the tablet in business scenarios. One will complement the other, since they are both fairly inexpensive tools. It's hard to say definitively what the future will bring, even the next 5 to 10 years, other than faster, more powerful, more connected, more AI-like fixed and mobile devices.

Ted, KX4OM

Modified with more info. One thing I should have mentioned is cloud computing, which Google is pushing along with their Chromebook. The OS is simpler, the device (laptop) is less expensive, and HP has recently introduced a Chromebook focused on business. A cloud-based server environment will be able to push the application to the Chromebook user, and to an increasing extent, the server environment can be platform-neutral. Photoshop everywhere to every device, for example. This too eats away at the traditional legacy PC space.

And then there is the widescreen TV with a keyboard and a couch...

T
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 06:44:18 PM by KX4OM » Logged
KD8TUT
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« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2016, 10:26:44 PM »

I'm kind of rolling a few things together here from this thread. The workstation PC cannot currently be replaced by the tablet. An example is the HMO that I belong to. Every desk, every counter, every visit room, every pharmacy station and every hospital bed has one of the standing-on-its-side "desktop" format PCs running Windows. A year ago, they were Windows 7 machines; now new boxes running Windows 10. A hospital employee is able to drop in a DVD from another hospital with X-Rays, for one example. They are of course connected to a server cluster, and they perform a similar function that a terminal did a few decades ago.

Hospitals and medical offices aren't the only service industry that uses PCs as data terminals. Banks, airlines, car rental agencies, government agencies (the police, for local examples) consume them in quantity. When I worked in engineering and project management, laptops served the same purpose, as I had to be able take the job with me.

Could I have used a tablet, in the case of the PM job? Yes, but I really needed a keyboard for compiling spreadsheets and writing reports. Could physicians and nurses carry tablets from patient to patient? Yes, but in my opinion, that would not be as convenient as the terminal/PC workstation.

Those vertical PCs are the ones that you see in quantity at places like Microcenter for under $200, wiped and with a new OEM install of Windows 7 or 8. As use of the tablet becomes more widespread, *some* of the market for traditional PCs will diminish. Users will be more familiar with tablet use at earlier ages and not see the need to transition to a desktop-only environment.

I don't think that there will be a sudden abandonment of the desktop in favor of the tablet in business scenarios. One will complement the other, since they are both fairly inexpensive tools. It's hard to say definitively what the future will bring, even the next 5 to 10 years, other than faster, more powerful, more connected, more AI-like fixed and mobile devices.

Ted, KX4OM

Modified with more info. One thing I should have mentioned is cloud computing, which Google is pushing along with their Chromebook. The OS is simpler, the device (laptop) is less expensive, and HP has recently introduced a Chromebook focused on business. A cloud-based server environment will be able to push the application to the Chromebook user, and to an increasing extent, the server environment can be platform-neutral. Photoshop everywhere to every device, for example. This too eats away at the traditional legacy PC space.

And then there is the widescreen TV with a keyboard and a couch...

T

Your analysis is good. I'd like to add a couple of points.

One of the problems with the "outsourced-cloud" is that it's a code word for "someone else controls your data". From my standpoint as a corporate executive, this is something that should never happen. It's a problem looking for a solution.

First, your cloud provider will not resist a subpoena. Of course they say they are vigorous about this from the standpoint of their sales presentation. Make of that what you will.

If the business in question owns their own "cloud" (defined as multiple in house storage points, and in house processing) a possible subpoena goes directly to the legal department. As is appropriate. However, if out-sourced cloud servers are used data can be taken from the company without *any* notice to the company (this is true for an individual as well).

Second, if my business is handling it's own technology, storage, backups, and emergency plan, on paper it's more expensive- until there is data loss in the cloud (true for an individual as well).

Those two factors would have me advise against cloud services for business and or personal use. The appropriate use of outsourced service should be for web hosting only, and e-mail should be kept in house.

So how does this tie in to the desktop?

Remember, you cannot really process data remotely, without exposing your data to an easier path of intercept. "Cloud computing" is a term created by a marketing department looking for more business. Not IT engineers. We are almost universally against this change in topology. It's the equivalent of storing your cash down the street at your friends house.

So thin clients, and cloud services, are a bad idea. Physical security of your data makes up 95% of the possible security concerns an individual or a business may face. This is true for the desktop as well.

The thick/thin client debate has been going back and forth since the advent of the PC. It will go back and forth in the radio hobby (with different consequences and principles) as well.

So the question is: Who do you trust to store and process your data- yourself... or someone else?

Considering that appliance computer users of $200.00 PCs are jumping to tablets and phones they no longer have a choice. It's all cloud based storage.

Lastly, given the stagnation of processor speeds over the last 5 years (Moore's Law has hit us)- we will not be seeing tablets or phones with profound processing power comparable to a workstation. This may yet happen- but it will not happen with a silicon semiconductor.
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W8JX
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« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2016, 04:17:59 AM »

Some one stated that I have been out of the loop Linux is future. Both comments are without merit. I monitor and follow technology trends far more than many other here and when those out of touch do not see comments supporting what they believe or want they attack me. They are in denial of were technology is taking us. And of Linux being future it will never happen and the reason is Linux itself. It lacks standards as its open source works against it. If you look at successful OSes that have done well they use standards that support is built for. Example all Windows releases are the same based on their version of it. Linux has dozens of versions and no universal GUI. Until Linux gets together behind one version and GUI and builds support for it it will never reach critical mass and only be a niche OS for desktop at best. And do not go the corporate world uses Linux as a comparison. They spend big dollars for a few custom apps for that platform for their needs which does equate to home desktop.
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KK4GGL
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« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2016, 05:27:13 AM »

Some one stated that I have been out of the loop Linux is future. Both comments are without merit. I monitor and follow technology trends far more than many other here and when those out of touch do not see comments supporting what they believe or want they attack me. They are in denial of were technology is taking us. And of Linux being future it will never happen and the reason is Linux itself. It lacks standards as its open source works against it
Linux developers adhere to standards far more strictly that Microsoft ever has. Your rants against Open Source show you lack of understanding of Open Source.
If you look at successful OSes that have done well they use standards that support is built for. Example all Windows releases are the same based on their version of it.
Windows has been a "success" only because of Microsoft's abuse of its monopoly power. Your second statement doesn't parse.
Linux has dozens of versions and no universal GUI.
GnuLinux distros have no universal GUIs because that's the way people want it, although X is fairly universal.
Until Linux gets together behind one version and GUI and builds support for it it will never reach critical mass and only be a niche OS for desktop at best.
Define "niche OS" as you mean it. And "Linux" can't get behind anything because it is a kernel... a far more widely used kernel than anything Microsoft has.
And do not go the corporate world uses Linux as a comparison. They spend big dollars for a few custom apps for that platform for their needs which does equate to home desktop.
... and that explains why the "corporate world" uses LibreOffice so much.

Face it, John. Your reputation as a Microsoft shill is well deserved, and you show no understanding of Open/Free software or the FOSS community.
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Rick KK4GGL
KD8TUT
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« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2016, 07:08:09 AM »


Face it, John. Your reputation as a Microsoft shill is well deserved, and you show no understanding of Open/Free software or the FOSS community.

He reminds me of this gym teacher I knew around 1995. I had designed a computer network for a public school and it had been up and running for about 6 months- one morning it went down.

That morning while troubleshooting the problem, this gym teacher spent an hour talking over my shoulder telling me how to troubleshoot the problem. He had no idea that he didn't know what he was talking about. And my suspicion is to this day he didn't care. He had built a model in his mind how things worked- and while that model worked in his mind it did not fit reality (by a long shot).

Perhaps I'm too hard on John though. Having had two careers where you had to perform... always... without fail... and always be correct (in a demonstrable sense).... perhaps I've been too hard on him. It's not a professional situation and it's my error to hold him to professional standards.

But he does say some of the most obtuse things regarding computers and operating systems.
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KX4OM
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« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2016, 07:37:39 AM »

Some one stated that I have been out of the loop Linux is future. Both comments are without merit. I monitor and follow technology trends far more than many other here and when those out of touch do not see comments supporting what they believe or want they attack me. They are in denial of were technology is taking us. And of Linux being future it will never happen and the reason is Linux itself. It lacks standards as its open source works against it
Linux developers adhere to standards far more strictly that Microsoft ever has. Your rants against Open Source show you lack of understanding of Open Source.
If you look at successful OSes that have done well they use standards that support is built for. Example all Windows releases are the same based on their version of it.
Windows has been a "success" only because of Microsoft's abuse of its monopoly power. Your second statement doesn't parse.
Linux has dozens of versions and no universal GUI.
GnuLinux distros have no universal GUIs because that's the way people want it, although X is fairly universal.
Until Linux gets together behind one version and GUI and builds support for it it will never reach critical mass and only be a niche OS for desktop at best.
Define "niche OS" as you mean it. And "Linux" can't get behind anything because it is a kernel... a far more widely used kernel than anything Microsoft has.
And do not go the corporate world uses Linux as a comparison. They spend big dollars for a few custom apps for that platform for their needs which does equate to home desktop.
... and that explains why the "corporate world" uses LibreOffice so much.

Face it, John. Your reputation as a Microsoft shill is well deserved, and you show no understanding of Open/Free software or the FOSS community.

I just searched "what organizations use Linux" on DuckDuckGo. I got a lot of hits on that. Some of the results like "50 Places Linux is Running that You Might Not Expect" is dated, having been compiled in 2010. The use of Linux is not all servers and infrastructure. Amazon uses it "in every corner of its business." The single GUI as a necessity may be true for standardization within a single organization, but not universally. The flexibility to customize is an advantage to organizations like the NSA, CERN, FermiLab and the US Navy submarine fleet (not when I served aboard SSBNs over 40 years ago!) In 2010, the customer base of Microsoft's Azure cloud services platform (Windows Azure back then) was 60% RedHat linux, and 70% Linux overall. Microsoft Azure cloud services runs Linux, including Microsoft-configured Linux virtual machines (as well as Microsoft VMs.) Microsoft embraces open source, evidenced by Windows 10's next release inclusion of Ubuntu's shell and supporting directory structure for software developers.

On the point made about standards: The National Institute of Standards and Technology developed "The United States Government Configuration Baseline (USGCB) - Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Desktop Content" in conjunction with DoD and RedHat.

Ted, KX4OM
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K7EXJ
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« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2016, 09:23:51 AM »

One of the problems with the "outsourced-cloud" is that it's a code word for "someone else controls your data". From my standpoint as a corporate executive, this is something that should never happen. It's a problem looking for a solution.

Since I'm just the guy who gets called in to install/fix/reconfigure network systems I have no stake in whether or not "the cloud" prevails. In fact I have moved clients to Google's email as a cheaper alternative to setting up an Exchange server for a 7-person organization.

But I found it interesting a few months back when Amazon AWS was advertising for Linux geeks who either had or could get a T O P S E C R E T /special access clearance. After a career in which I had that sort of clearance I can make a pretty decent guess at which Federal agency/agencies are utilizing AWS cloud services and they're not the ones that take security lightly.

It made me go, "Hmmmmm".

I'm in complete agreement with your analysis of JX. His understanding of IT, while I'm sure is heartfelt, is entirely in his imagination. And parsing his posts, all by itself, doesn't reflect well on his understanding of the issues.



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73s de K7EXJ
Craig Smiley
KD8MJR
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« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2016, 12:17:18 PM »

Some one stated that I have been out of the loop Linux is future. Both comments are without merit. I monitor and follow technology trends far more than many other here.....

Ok that first statement is a doozy!  How do you know you monitor technology trends more than most people here?   

Let me state two things that are factual.

1) You have made mention that your retired, so any reading that you do must be done on your own time and involve your own interest or maybe some banter from some friends every once in awhile.

2)  As even you know, when you work in an IT environment and have several other young IT guys working with you, they all are into whats new and whats happening.  So for several hours everyday you hear about information that you never even thought about looking into and your constantly emailed links to articles that on subjects that none of the big websites want to talk about and normally I would never have the time or interest to go out and research.

So IMO your statement is probably so completely wrong that you don't even have a clue how wrong you are. 

You do make some interesting post JX but your belief in MS as some sort of great almighty company that can do no wrong is just so out of step with what is really happening.  If I had to bet $10 on which OS will be the dominant one in 20 years time, I would put $7 on Linux and split $3 on the others

You talk about MS trying to unify the OS across multiple platforms.  Linux has already done that, they are probably even controlling your microwave oven  Wink

You say Linux needs a standard GUI to beat MS.   Well that's really not a problem, making a good GUI is easy and Linux already has some good GUI's.   Linux already has ALL the pieces of the universal unified OS, the only problem is that the pieces are not unified yet. On the other hand MS is desperately trying to just make the pieces and they have been failing time and time again.




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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
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