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Author Topic: palomar 200/with preamp  (Read 1269 times)
KE4SEP
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Posts: 13




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« on: April 01, 2007, 11:27:48 AM »

I was given a palomar 200 with a preamp,I can not find any info on it,it is a least 15 years old.would any body have any info on it or knoe where I can find it? thanks all  Ed/KE4SEP
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KA5N
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Posts: 4380




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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2007, 11:41:58 AM »

I think it is a CB amplifier.  If I remember correctly Palomar (or some variation of the spelling) was a manufacturer of amateur equipment, but went out of business and the name was taken over by CB amp maker.  Most of the time if you can't find anything on the web then chances are good it is just crap.
73 Allen









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KA3NXN
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Posts: 108


WWW

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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2007, 08:02:33 PM »

I'd be willing to bet it doesn't have an FCC Type acceptance label on it. If it doesn't, I wouldn't be advertising that I had one in my shack, much less using it.  It is an illegal amp that is nothing more that a splatter box. Throw it away before you get caught with it.
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KE4SEP
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Posts: 13




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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2007, 09:00:52 PM »

yea,your right,it does not have a sticker,lots of parts in it I can use for projects.I haven't fired it up,so I don't even know if it works.it has 2 mrf 455's I could use one for a 50 watt amp for 6 meters.just need to find a scematic. 73  ed
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K5YF
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Posts: 77




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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2007, 12:14:24 AM »

I'm sure KA3NXN was joking but just in case someone didn't know... the amp isn't illegal as such UNLESS you were to use it on a service other than amateur. It may have unacceptable "splatter" but it may not. Find someone to test it and see. In any case, it is probably a good starting point for a good amp even if it is a "splatter box."

Hams are NOT restricted to only using FCC type accepted equipment on the amateur bands.  This is really what you get for passing the amateur exams; a license to build and test your own equipment. Or in this case, buy something that was built for who knows what and alter it for use on the amateur bands.

...and just in case KA3NXN wasn't joking, I'll take all the CB "splatter box" throw-aways you ever run across Smiley


73 de N5JYK

P.S. YES! I know its an old thread.
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KE4SEP
Member

Posts: 13




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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2007, 12:36:23 AM »

thank you N5JYK,that clears up some things I was wondering about,this amp seems to be well made.73  Ed KE4SEP/AG
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2802




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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2007, 07:25:33 AM »

N5JYK -

Maybe you should review Part 97 (97.315, specifically).  Commercially built external power  amplifiers that operate on HF certainly DO require FCC Certification.

http://www.w5yi.org/page.php?id=143&PHPSESSID=e31c4ab58be8ebe8596fc0f2bf6dc0a0
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
K5YF
Member

Posts: 77




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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2007, 09:41:07 PM »

K7KBN,

You are right on to provide an easy link... I do prefer the .gov sites but this one is good. The important text for this discussion is section (a), but I have included the entire rule section at the end of this post. Please note that the term "certified" has replaced the term "type accepted" in FCC documentation.

From the actual text of part 97. Quoted between the dashed lines
-------------------------
"(a) No more than 1 unit of 1 model of an external RF power amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified during any calendar year by an amateur operator for use at a station without a grant of certification. No amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified by a non-amateur operator without a grant of certification from the FCC."
-----------------------------

You will notice that an amateur may modify or manufacture ONE amplifier for operation below 144MHz per year WITHOUT FCC CERTIFICATION, and that a NON-AMATEUR may NOT modify or manufacture same without FCC certification.

You might also notice that section (b) outlines/lists exceptions to the rule outlined in (a).  This outline/list is just as important as the first one so read it too....

Thanks again to K7KBN for the link!

Summary:
Amateurs may manufacture or modify rf amplification equipment that operates below 144MHz, but only one per year.

Amateurs may purchase, sell, trade, or acquire USED non-certified equipment, from other amateurs or from dealers.

73! De N5JYK

Here is the complete text of the rule.


Part 97 : Sec. 97.315 Certification of external RF power amplifiers
________________________________________
(a) No more than 1 unit of 1 model of an external RF power amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified during any calendar year by an amateur operator for use at a station without a grant of certification. No amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified by a non-amateur operator without a grant of certification from the FCC.

(b) Any external RF power amplifier or external RF power amplifier kit (see Sec. 2.815 of the FCC Rules), manufactured, imported or modified for use in a station or attached at any station must be certificated for use in the amateur service in accordance with subpart J of part 2 of the FCC Rules. This requirement does not apply if one or more of the following conditions are met:
 (1) The amplifier is not capable of operation on frequencies below 144 MHz. For the purpose of this part, an amplifier will be deemed to be incapable of operation below 144 MHz if it is not capable of being easily modified to increase its amplification characteristics below 120 MHz and either:
   (i) The mean output power of the amplifier decreases, as frequency decreases from 144 MHz, to a point where 0 dB or less gain is exhibited at 120 MHz; or
   (ii) The amplifier is not capable of amplifying signals below 120 MHz even for brief periods without sustaining permanent damage to its amplification circuitry.
 (2) The amplifier was manufactured before April 28, 1978, and has been issued a marketing waiver by the FCC, or the amplifier was purchased before April 28, 1978, by an amateur operator for use at that amateur operator's station.
 (3) The amplifier was:
   (i) Constructed by the licensee, not from an external RF power amplifier kit, for use at the licensee's station; or
   (ii) Modified by the licensee for use at the licensee's station.
 (4) The amplifier is sold by an amateur operator to another amateur operator or to a dealer.
 (5) The amplifier is purchased in used condition by an equipment dealer from an amateur operator and the amplifier is further sold to another amateur operator for use at that operator's station.

(c) Any external RF power amplifier appearing in the Commission's database as certificated for use in the amateur service may be marketed for use in the amateur service.
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KA5N
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Posts: 4380




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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2007, 02:05:38 AM »

"1 unit of 1 model" does not limit the amateur to only one home built amplifier per year.  It would limit him to one unit of a kind (i.e. the same design and circuit).  This language is to preclude an amateur from building amplifiers for sale in his garage.  
Unfortunately, the FCC trys to control the production of equipment that will cause interference on the airwaves by just writing laws instead of rigorous enforcement of laws.  One person with internet access and a search engine could easily ferret out manufacturers of illegal amplifiers and an enforcement team could come and arrest them resulting in much better enforcement than occurs today.
Allen
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K5YF
Member

Posts: 77




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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2007, 10:08:56 AM »

KA5N,

Thank you ever so much for that correction! I appreciate you taking the time to post!

So an amateur may manufacture or modify, ONE amplifier of any specific/particular design operating below 144MHz,  per year.

73 de N5JYK
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KA5N
Member

Posts: 4380




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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2007, 10:19:01 AM »

To N5JYK,
Well that's my read on it.  I am not a lawyer, so if it is serious, you might want to consult one.  Of course you could probably buy a commerical amp for what consulting with a high power (no pun intended) lawyer would cost.
73 Allen
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K7KBN
Member

Posts: 2802




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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2007, 01:27:41 PM »

The original question was whether this Palomar amplifier bore any sort of FCC certification label.  As a commercially-built external power amplifier operating below 144 MHz, it MUST be so certificated and must bear a label attesting to this.

It apparently doesn't, so it isn't.

No one's arguing (at least I'm not) that a licensed ham can take such a piece of ... junk and modify it so that it complies with the various technical aspects and requirements of Part 97 with complete impunity.  As described, however, this amplifier has not been so modified.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
K5YF
Member

Posts: 77




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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2007, 06:26:40 PM »

K7KBN,

I think I understand your concern, and I don't mean to diminish those concerns with legal babble... this amp may have unacceptable intermodulation distortion (IMD). But you and I don't really know the condition, design, or modifications (if any) done to this amp.

However, it would be a disservice to KE4SEP if the previous comments were left unsaid.

73 de N5JYK
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VE3EFJ
Member

Posts: 88




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« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2007, 11:20:04 AM »

Just a heads up.

The MRF455 is a 30 MHz transistor. The amp that you have is also designed for 30 MHz, implying that the transformer cores may not operate properly at twice the frequency.

My experience suggests that running this amp on 6M will not provide the expected results.


Wayne
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