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Author Topic: Let your child operate CW on air without a license  (Read 4232 times)
VK6IS
Member

Posts: 298




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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2017, 07:47:11 PM »

since this is very legal, in OZ,
& I've used to to do a little bit, usually with fellow CBers,
which was, of course, some years ago,
but, it used to cost them a few Coffee's - - to keep me attentive !.
 Grin
it's a great way to encourage some newcomers.
 Smiley

never did get my kid's interested, though.
 Sad
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M0LEP
Member

Posts: 478




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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2017, 03:08:27 AM »

Can anyone untangle this legalese...? I think b) and/or c) may actually allow the on-off keying (iCW) of a TX under supervision:

Hmmm... It seems to me that (b) relates only to folk who are being trained to become amateurs, while (a) and (c) specifically limit the use to a microphone and its transmit button (so buttons to change frequency or do anything other than start and stop transmission must not be touched) or voice-activated transmit function. If those were the words in my licence I don't think I'd chance letting an un-licenced individual use CW on my station, unless they were participating in a licence training course and I was using my station to help with the practical aspects of the course.

However, I'm not a lawyer, and legalese is definitely a foreign language.

Can you say "dummy load" children?

Heh. The lead instructor at one of my local clubs sometimes talks about "greatest distance worked on a dummy load" when trying to emphasise the importance of shielding...
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VK5EEE
Member

Posts: 936




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« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2017, 04:48:51 AM »

G0MEP, agree, that's what it looks like.
Alternative to a big dummy load, little Chinese Pixies... with 50 Ohm resistor. Those will transmit around a room, and when getting a novice license they can stick a wire on it... ahh, but not in VK, novices are not allowed to use anything other than mass produced black boxes. Hmm.... ok, change the XTAL from 7023 to 27000 or 13560, put a wire on it, and fire away.
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever
VK6IS
Member

Posts: 298




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« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2017, 07:43:28 AM »

Heh. The lead instructor at one of my local clubs sometimes talks about "greatest distance worked on a dummy load" when trying to emphasise the importance of shielding...

that distance was from NW W.A. over to NE Qld - - a distance of over 5000KM
- the OP couldn't believe that I'd was using a home-brew dummy load,
and replacing the dummy load with the coax to the Vert Ant, gave just a S2 increase on his meter.

but, it is always a thrill when some OP is interested in your Radio Station,
& letting them "have a go" is an even bigger encouragement for them.

and I'm the one that should know this, as the "friend" who had a Full Call,
- let me "have a go".
 Grin
over 30 years ago.
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W3TTT
Member

Posts: 234




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« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2017, 09:46:38 AM »

Say Joe,
Do you have a radio tuned nearby so they can hear their dits and dahs as they press the key?
Kraus

Kraus
My Icom 730 has a sidetone.  If I don't press the "Transmitt" button or don't have the VOX selected, then it doesn't transmit, but it still keys an audio tone.  World's most expensive Code Practice Oscillator. 
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W3TTT
Member

Posts: 234




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« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2017, 10:07:22 AM »

This thread is talking about unlicensed operation of a transmitter.  Keeping to the subject, ...

Quote from: FCC Part 15
§15.223   Operation in the band 1.705-10 MHz.
However, if the bandwidth of the emission is less than 10% of the center frequency, the field strength shall not exceed 15 microvolts/meter ...

WTF?  10% of the center frequency?  A signal at 4.0 MHz, the bandwidth of 10% would be +- 400 KHz.  Right?  We don't really use spark gap transmitters anymore. 

Quote
§15.209 says 30 uV/m at 30 meters between 1.7 and 30 MHz.

What is that in watts? Let's say I have a resonant vertical antenna.  I go 30 meters away and measure the voltage between ground and a one meter length of wire?  How thick the wire? Does it matter?  Does a "Pixie II" transceiver that puts out about 100 mW qualify?
 Huh
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K7KBN
Member

Posts: 3454




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« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2017, 10:19:10 AM »

that distance was from NW W.A. over to NE Qld - - a distance of over 5000KM

NW W.A.?  Anywhere near the Harold E. Holt place?  Far northern end of North West Cape?
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
PA0KDW
Member

Posts: 93




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« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2017, 11:23:19 AM »

This thread is talking about unlicensed operation of a transmitter.  Keeping to the subject, ...



Quote
§15.209 says 30 uV/m at 30 meters between 1.7 and 30 MHz.

What is that in watts? Let's say I have a resonant vertical antenna.  I go 30 meters away and measure the voltage between ground and a one meter length of wire?  How thick the wire? Does it matter?  Does a "Pixie II" transceiver that puts out about 100 mW qualify?

TTT never ask, because when it is a stupid question it does not exist.

So give a silly answer on your own question then the experts jump in and correct it.

 I Do the job for you by example :

EXPERTS ATTENTION:

The impedance of free space is 120 pi with pi the ratio between the circumference and the diameter of a circle.
So when the E=30E-6 V/m  then H=E/120pi = 1/(4.pi) E-6

According to Maxwell in a circle with radius R=10 m is then
2.pi.R.H=i with i the current in the antenna.

So the antenna  current may be 5 E-6 ampere that is  5 microamps.

So not a stupid question that does not exist but a stupid answer that cries for explanation by the experts..
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WW7KE
Member

Posts: 549




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« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2017, 11:39:49 AM »

This thread is talking about unlicensed operation of a transmitter.  Keeping to the subject, ...

Quote from: FCC Part 15
§15.223   Operation in the band 1.705-10 MHz.
However, if the bandwidth of the emission is less than 10% of the center frequency, the field strength shall not exceed 15 microvolts/meter ...

WTF?  10% of the center frequency?  A signal at 4.0 MHz, the bandwidth of 10% would be +- 400 KHz.  Right?  We don't really use spark gap transmitters anymore. 

I have no idea what would occupy that kind of bandwidth, other than some ISM devices and old 1920s-era Nipkow-disk TV transmitters.  Just use 15 uV/m.

Quote
Quote
§15.209 says 30 uV/m at 30 meters between 1.7 and 30 MHz.

What is that in watts? Let's say I have a resonant vertical antenna.  I go 30 meters away and measure the voltage between ground and a one meter length of wire?  How thick the wire? Does it matter?  Does a "Pixie II" transceiver that puts out about 100 mW qualify?
 Huh

OET bulletin 63 has this:

Although the precise relationship between power and field strength can depend on a number of additional factors, a commonly-used equation to approximate their relationship is:

((P * G) / (4 * pi * D^2)) = ((E^2) / (120 * pi))

P is transmitter power in Watts
G is the numerical gain of the transmitting antenna relative to an isotropic source
D is the distance of the measuring point from the electrical center of the antenna in meters
E is field strength in volts/meter.

120 * pi, or 376.9, is the impedance of free space in ohms

30 uV/m at 30 meters is roughly 27 nanowatts EIRP (G=1).  The calculation is frequency-independent.
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He speaks fluent PSK31...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!
WB4M
Member

Posts: 245




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« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2017, 04:37:20 PM »

Years ago my 2 young nieces took an interest in my outboard electronic keyer.  They would use a straight key and play around adjusting the speeds, tone, and weight.  I taught them a few letters and it took about 1 week for them to have the alphabet learned.   I had toyed with the idea of  allowing them to send live CW on the air, but they were too shy about it. They were more interested in sending secret messages to each other at school. Some of their friends then wanted to learn CW and I think I could have had a CW class full of 8 year old, lol.
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VK6IS
Member

Posts: 298




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« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2017, 02:54:57 AM »

that distance was from NW W.A. over to NE Qld - - a distance of over 5000KM
NW W.A.?  Anywhere near the Harold E. Holt place?  Far northern end of North West Cape?

YES - -  a Mine Site that was just slightly NE of that base - - to Cairns.

and where a local Full Call let someone else use his Rig.
& who encouraged that other user - - to get a Novice License.
 Grin
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 02:57:29 AM by VK6IS » Logged
K7KBN
Member

Posts: 3454




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« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2017, 03:28:24 PM »

that distance was from NW W.A. over to NE Qld - - a distance of over 5000KM
NW W.A.?  Anywhere near the Harold E. Holt place?  Far northern end of North West Cape?

YES - -  a Mine Site that was just slightly NE of that base - - to Cairns.

and where a local Full Call let someone else use his Rig.
& who encouraged that other user - - to get a Novice License.
 Grin

Wow!  There's not much at all NE of the big antenna - about 2.5 - 3 miles of beach.  There are some areas where it looks like there might have been mining quite a while back.  I had a chance to get stationed there while I was in the Navy, but it would have meant reenlisting and I had already made other plans.  And, just for information, when a US sailor refers to "Australia", what he's referring to is the east and southeast Australia area.  Not WA, and particularly not Exmouth!  Wink
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
VK5EEE
Member

Posts: 936




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« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2017, 04:13:43 PM »

I thought the US was all up in Darwin and remote WA. Busy attacking P5 before I can get it on the air by sending an armada sailing toward Australia. What are they doing down in the SE? Did Tasmania declare independence? Or did the armada keep right on course heading SE, with GPS spoofed?
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Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever
K7KBN
Member

Posts: 3454




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« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2017, 04:30:05 PM »

I thought the US was all up in Darwin and remote WA. Busy attacking P5 before I can get it on the air by sending an armada sailing toward Australia. What are they doing down in the SE? Did Tasmania declare independence? Or did the armada keep right on course heading SE, with GPS spoofed?

The USN and RAN operated a joint VLF station named after the late PM Harold E. Holt, situated just about as far north on North West Cape as it could possibly be.  It became active in submarine communications in the middle of the 1960s.  Up until that time, "Australia" meant "great place to have liberty (or "shore leave"), and the ports associated with travel brochures and National Geographic articles - 90% of which extended from Queensland to NSW.  Once in a great while, one of our smaller escorts would be detached from our group and head for Perth -- and Perth is the closest large Australian city to H.E. Holt.

Google Earth is pretty good as far as showing the hexagonal main VLF antenna.  Go into ground-level view and you can "drive" up the eastern side of the site where you can get a fair view of one of the towers (but not the really tall one in the center of the array).  I'm not sure of what communications activity goes on there now; it was disestablished just a relatively short time after it was established.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
KB9CFH
Member

Posts: 35




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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2017, 09:20:54 PM »

Just use CwCom and let the kids ( under adult supervision) have a good time.
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