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Author Topic: "Burning in" tubes?  (Read 6005 times)
K4RVN
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Posts: 2




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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2017, 11:48:15 PM »

Yes that is the article I read. Item 7 as you scroll down instructs to "install the tube you want to getter , burn in." meaning the same " burn in or getter" as I understand it as written.
Also Tom mentions it is a good idea to do this on new foreign tubes as well as old new ones.
I never do this but did turn them on in my SB200 for about 5 minutes and let them get good and warm before applying the operating drive. My china 572 B tubes worked fine. I am also running a 3-500 made in china in my AL80A which I let warm up well before using. It has done well so far but probably would have been fine to just throw the operate switch in a minute or less.
I sold the SB200 and never had any problems with the new tubes from china. I am now running a pair of Eimac 3cx800A7 tubes in an AL 800H in addition to the AL80A. Hi Carl, I did not provide a link because I did not think of it fast enough before getting out of it and was too dumb to find it again. Guess Irma was on my mind, just kidding.

Frank
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 11:53:40 PM by K4RVN » Logged
G3RZP
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Posts: 8022




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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2017, 02:53:53 AM »

A bit OT, but what happened to Cetron and when? Did they go bankrupt, or did the owner pass away and nobody wanted to take over or what? I'm figuring some of you Old Timers know...
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K1ZJH
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Posts: 3190




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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2017, 07:12:19 AM »

It looks like they went out of business in the early 1980's.  The old factory is (was?) being torn down to make room for apartment buildings, according to Google searches.

Here is some history, but nothing overly specific as to exactly what caused them to close. I suspect economics.

There was a page on RF Parts that explained part of the story, if I can find it...  one other link shows that Richardson took over the
company.  That was probably the end of them.

https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/tubes/215937/
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 07:17:15 AM by K1ZJH » Logged
G3RZP
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Posts: 8022




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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2017, 01:49:20 AM »

Thanks Pete.

It seems a pity that manufacturing 'good' tubes doesn't offer the same return as making ones of poor quality. It should offer greater profits since you don't have returns....
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W8JX
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Posts: 12064




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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2017, 07:24:45 AM »

Thanks Pete.

It seems a pity that manufacturing 'good' tubes doesn't offer the same return as making ones of poor quality. It should offer greater profits since you don't have returns....

It all about cost. Re-sellers here want to pay as little as possible for tubes and mark them up for higher profit and ability to eat bad ones due to low costs. Its all about max profit not best quality at a decent price...
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KM1H
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Posts: 2203




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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2017, 03:22:16 PM »

Richardson bought the Cetron name and all their tooling and were making a killing doing short runs of industrial tubes that were and some are still in use. They refuse to sell the 572B tooling.

Carl
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N9AOP
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Posts: 572




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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 08:24:52 AM »

And some day soon that tooling will be valuable only as scrap tonnage.
Art
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W8JX
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 08:29:40 AM »

And some day soon that tooling will be valuable only as scrap tonnage.
Art

I am sure there is some tax credit over sitting on it and selling for a claimed loss at a future date...
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
G3RZP
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« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 01:56:24 PM »

Carl,

I doubt it is the 'tooling' per se that is the problem. Much more likely is that the Chinese don't want to invest in better QA and longer hi temp pumping and quite possibly in zirconium coating the plates. I am told that even by 1944, things like 826s, 829s and 832s didn't have particularly good seals because having a really good seal slowed production and many of them weren't going to be in aircraft that lasted long enough for it to be noticeable - a bit like the PT15 PA tube in the RAF's T1154. If it got 100 hours of actual transmitting time in, it was lucky - and that wasn't down to tube failure.
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W8JX
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« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2017, 05:18:09 AM »

I doubt it is the 'tooling' per se that is the problem. Much more likely is that the Chinese don't want to invest in better QA and longer hi temp pumping and quite possibly in zirconium coating the plates.

You know everyone wants to blame china for quality of tubes that no one else even bothers to make but bottom line is what you are willing to pay for it because that determines how much effort and cost is put into making it. Tube resellers/import middle men want very high markups for high profit margins so they want to pay as little as possible for tubes which ultimately determines its quality.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
N3QE
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Posts: 4756




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« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2017, 05:56:26 AM »

You know everyone wants to blame china for quality of tubes that no one else even bothers to make but bottom line is what you are willing to pay for it because that determines how much effort and cost is put into making it. Tube resellers/import middle men want very high markups for high profit margins so they want to pay as little as possible for tubes which ultimately determines its quality.

At the moment, the resellers have to do their own expenses doing their own QC, or dealing with returns of defective tubes, or both. And they have to charge higher prices because of the cost of doing their own QC and/or to take into account costs of dealing with returns of defective product.

I don't begrudge the couple of good resellers, having to raise their prices to take into account those very real costs.

The above overheads exist on Russian tetrodes too. I've seen the level of QC that, say, Array Solutions does on GU74B's and it's actually quite impressive.
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W8JX
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Posts: 12064




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« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2017, 06:58:31 AM »


At the moment, the resellers have to do their own expenses doing their own QC, or dealing with returns of defective tubes, or both. And they have to charge higher prices because of the cost of doing their own QC and/or to take into account costs of dealing with returns of defective product.

I don't begrudge the couple of good resellers, having to raise their prices to take into account those very real costs.


But, the problem is resellers still want to pay very little for tubes they buy and test which means less QC. They are not will to pay more for better tubes because it does not fit their markup for profit and still be able to sell profile. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
K6AER
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Posts: 4568




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« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2017, 07:30:10 AM »

Interesting read.

The real issue here are hams are cheap. We want to buy tubes at 30 year old prices for our beloved 30 year old amplifier. I know of no other electronic hobby using equipment that dates back to when Nixon was president.

If enough hams would pay what is necessary to have quality tubes produced, they would be available. As for price gouging, competition will drive the price down but the market has to make enough money to stay in business.

Bottom line is our market spectrum is not large enough for multiple players.
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 12064




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« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2017, 08:21:34 AM »

Interesting read.

The real issue here are hams are cheap. We want to buy tubes at 30 year old prices for our beloved 30 year old amplifier. I know of no other electronic hobby using equipment that dates back to when Nixon was president.

If enough hams would pay what is necessary to have quality tubes produced, they would be available. As for price gouging, competition will drive the price down but the market has to make enough money to stay in business.

Bottom line is our market spectrum is not large enough for multiple players.

Nice comment and pretty accurate. That being said not much science in a tube amp and a 60"s design works fine in 2017
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
K0CWO
Member

Posts: 468




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« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 07:44:30 PM »

Richard Nixon was president 47 years ago or so.  30 years ago was 1987.

$100 in 1970 equals $647 today.

$100 in 1986 equals $220 today.

Seems like we're paying reasonable prices for HAM gear these days.

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

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