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Author Topic: The good ol' days  (Read 27140 times)
ONAIR
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« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2017, 08:30:07 PM »

I don't think that a real estate developer would appreciate huge ham antennas in any development where he is trying to sell homes.
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NEVBEN
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« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2017, 09:25:36 PM »

This would seem to be part of the proliferation of socialism on the surface, but there may be a little more to it.  I truly do not understand the whole picture but let me introduce some conjecture anyway.  I am beginning to understand that one of the reasons antenna restrictions are so common in CC&R's and HOA rules is because they are required to be put there by the lenders to land developers.  So while I don't intend to defend any socialist ideal in the least bit, the proliferation of antenna restrictions may actually be a capitalist phenomenon.  I suppose that capitalists that fund land development have been insisting on boilerplate CC&R's that protect their investment.  Typically, once the developer pays off the lender, those requirements no longer stand, but the declarations remain practically irrevocable.

It's easy to villify the HOA (believe me I can't muster the least bit of endearment), but oftentimes the HOA is merely fulfilling their obligation to enforce the CC&R's.  This is one of those cases where I can't imagine why any red-blooded American wouldn't just do a half-assed job, but let's face it, the boards of HOA's tend to attract busybodies.

What I'm saying is that it's not the busybodies, the HOA's, or even the developers that are the root cause, but the capitalists funding the developers that have been insisting on antenna restrictions.  They're far from caring.  They see those stacks of boilerplate regulatory declarations as a checkbox on their list of requirements for their fiduciary responsibility.  If they neglected something they've  maintained for countless repetitions, they would have no excuse.

This is a case where individuals need protection from the capitalists.  That protection doesn't come through anything socialist, but through the rule of law, which is the proper function of the government of a republic.  The law needs to intervene and say these capitalists do not need whatever protection these declarations provided their investments unbiquitously.

If the declarations where not there to begin with, it would be very hard for the socialists to engender them.  Most HOA's need 2/3rd's or 80% vote of owners to do such a thing, and there's typically a very tiny minority of sidewalk superintendents that run those things, and the vast majority owners are absent (they just own rentals), or just hoping the HOA doesn't pay them any unwanted attention.
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N2EY
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Posts: 4641




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« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2017, 07:01:52 AM »

This would seem to be part of the proliferation of socialism on the surface, but there may be a little more to it.  I truly do not understand the whole picture but let me introduce some conjecture anyway.  I am beginning to understand that one of the reasons antenna restrictions are so common in CC&R's and HOA rules is because they are required to be put there by the lenders to land developers.  So while I don't intend to defend any socialist ideal in the least bit, the proliferation of antenna restrictions may actually be a capitalist phenomenon.  I suppose that capitalists that fund land development have been insisting on boilerplate CC&R's that protect their investment.  Typically, once the developer pays off the lender, those requirements no longer stand, but the declarations remain practically irrevocable.

It's easy to villify the HOA (believe me I can't muster the least bit of endearment), but oftentimes the HOA is merely fulfilling their obligation to enforce the CC&R's.  This is one of those cases where I can't imagine why any red-blooded American wouldn't just do a half-assed job, but let's face it, the boards of HOA's tend to attract busybodies.

What I'm saying is that it's not the busybodies, the HOA's, or even the developers that are the root cause, but the capitalists funding the developers that have been insisting on antenna restrictions.  They're far from caring.  They see those stacks of boilerplate regulatory declarations as a checkbox on their list of requirements for their fiduciary responsibility.  If they neglected something they've  maintained for countless repetitions, they would have no excuse.

This is a case where individuals need protection from the capitalists.  That protection doesn't come through anything socialist, but through the rule of law, which is the proper function of the government of a republic.  The law needs to intervene and say these capitalists do not need whatever protection these declarations provided their investments unbiquitously.

If the declarations where not there to begin with, it would be very hard for the socialists to engender them.  Most HOA's need 2/3rd's or 80% vote of owners to do such a thing, and there's typically a very tiny minority of sidewalk superintendents that run those things, and the vast majority owners are absent (they just own rentals), or just hoping the HOA doesn't pay them any unwanted attention.

So....correct me if I'm wrong....what it all boils down to is that the mindset of CC&Rs, HOAs, etc., is because of CAPITALISM, not SOCIALISM.

If so....I think you're right. Here's another piece of the picture:

Where I live, things like keeping properties in decent shape are taken care of by nuisance ordinances, enforced by the local government. Which means.....taxes and a government department.

But with HOAs and CC&Rs, "smaller government" is possible, because the HOA does all that - paid for by HOA fees. And the HOA doesn't have to deal with things like simple majorities changing the rules, nor the Constitution.

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W9FIB
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Posts: 2126




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« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2017, 07:41:37 AM »

Where I live, things like keeping properties in decent shape are taken care of by nuisance ordinances, enforced by the local government. Which means.....taxes and a government department.

But with HOAs and CC&Rs, "smaller government" is possible, because the HOA does all that - paid for by HOA fees. And the HOA doesn't have to deal with things like simple majorities changing the rules, nor the Constitution.

I agree that can be true in many cases. However when you live in a more rural area where very few, if any, HOA's are present; then local government can make their own ordinances. And they are sometimes needed.

It is also possible that local ordinances predate an HOA development in their jurisdictions and have never been changed.
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73, Stan
Walk a mile in my shoes BEFORE you tell me how bad they are.
N2SR
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Posts: 720




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« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2017, 08:11:14 AM »

Where I live, things like keeping properties in decent shape are taken care of by nuisance ordinances, enforced by the local government. Which means.....taxes and a government department.

But with HOAs and CC&Rs, "smaller government" is possible, because the HOA does all that - paid for by HOA fees. And the HOA doesn't have to deal with things like simple majorities changing the rules, nor the Constitution.

I agree that can be true in many cases. However when you live in a more rural area where very few, if any, HOA's are present; then local government can make their own ordinances. And they are sometimes needed.

It is also possible that local ordinances predate an HOA development in their jurisdictions and have never been changed.

And just as people say "if you don't like the rules in the HOA, you can petition the board to change them."   

The same can be said for local government.   

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If no one is doing it that way, there is a probably a very good reason.
N2EY
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Posts: 4641




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« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2017, 10:16:26 AM »

Where I live, things like keeping properties in decent shape are taken care of by nuisance ordinances, enforced by the local government. Which means.....taxes and a government department.

But with HOAs and CC&Rs, "smaller government" is possible, because the HOA does all that - paid for by HOA fees. And the HOA doesn't have to deal with things like simple majorities changing the rules, nor the Constitution.

I agree that can be true in many cases. However when you live in a more rural area where very few, if any, HOA's are present; then local government can make their own ordinances. And they are sometimes needed.

It is also possible that local ordinances predate an HOA development in their jurisdictions and have never been changed.

And just as people say "if you don't like the rules in the HOA, you can petition the board to change them."   

The same can be said for local government.   



However, it is usually much easier to change or get a variance for an ordinance.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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AC7CW
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Posts: 1099




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« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2017, 01:45:30 PM »

Good ol' days in good ol' rural Texas: About every third ranch had an antenna hundreds of feet tall in the middle of a pasture. I never found out if they were for Cell service or what. One guy had a beam in his front yard. I used to compliment him on his yard on the repeater when I drove by. I could have built the most grandiose antenna farm and it would have gone unnoticed pretty muchly...
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)
VK5EEE
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Posts: 1215




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« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2017, 10:21:06 PM »

The HOA is proof the socialist, communist, Marxist, liberal, Leninist and 'they' have crept into every facet of our lives.

So....correct me if I'm wrong....what it all boils down to is that the mindset of CC&Rs, HOAs, etc., is because of CAPITALISM, not SOCIALISM.

Indeed. The over-regulation that is experienced in the west can't be called socialism, communism, Marxism, liberalism, Leninism. It's neo-capitalist FASCISM. Perhaps more accurately: LEFT-FASCISM. I think this new word is required to accurately describe the current trends in West. After all, it is corporate entities that run the governments now in the west, i.e. fascism. But they dress it up as "health and safety" and other Orwellian slogans such as War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength, Slavery is Freedom, and the drugged masses buy right into it.

Even The Don wasn't allowed to erect a flag pole of a mere 80 feet height on his own property and had to pay $100,000 bribes to charity to have it allowed at a pitiful 70 feet. What chance do the rest of us have?

What lovely photos were posted above of the good old days. Freedom and responsibility has declined to micro-managed straight jacket existence. Those kids these days would not be allowed on the road, would have to wear luminous clothing, helmets and steel capped boots.

The moment they get off the plane to have a holiday in a free country like the Kingdom of Thailand however, the count-down begins: many of them die each year there from accidents of all kinds, since they're experiencing FREEDOM for the first time but never had any training nor experience of RESPONSIBILITY.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 10:33:33 PM by VK5EEE » Logged

Long Live Real Human CW and wishing you many happy CW QSO - 77 - CW Forever

Support CW and join CW clubs. QTT: FIST#1124, HSC#1437, UFT#728, RCWC#982, SKCC#15007, CWOPS#1714, 30CW#1,
N2EY
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Posts: 4641




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« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2018, 01:10:54 PM »

The HOA is proof the socialist, communist, Marxist, liberal, Leninist and 'they' have crept into every facet of our lives.

So....correct me if I'm wrong....what it all boils down to is that the mindset of CC&Rs, HOAs, etc., is because of CAPITALISM, not SOCIALISM.

Indeed. The over-regulation that is experienced in the west can't be called socialism, communism, Marxism, liberalism, Leninism. It's neo-capitalist FASCISM. Perhaps more accurately: LEFT-FASCISM. I think this new word is required to accurately describe the current trends in West. After all, it is corporate entities that run the governments now in the west, i.e. fascism. But they dress it up as "health and safety" and other Orwellian slogans such as War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength, Slavery is Freedom, and the drugged masses buy right into it.

Which has nothing to do with "the left". Rather, it has to do with "the right" wanting to maximize profits (capitalism) by insuring maximum conformity of behavior.

Here in the USA, "no outdoor antennas" rules became common because of....cable TV.

Back about the 1970s, cable TV folks got together with developer/builders and made a sweetheart deal: The developers would wire new houses in a development for cable TV as they were being built, paid for by the cable-TV folks. In return, the developers would put no-outdoor-antennas clauses in the CC&Rs and HOA rules, and advertise the homes as "cable ready" with no installation fees. They would not advertise that you couldn't put up a TV antenna.

The cable TV folks would then have a built-in customer base, because as people moved in, they discovered that TV reception wasn't very good on indoor antennas, so they'd sign up for cable. 

To save money on lawyers, the HOA rules and CC&Rs were often reused for all sorts of developments. Eventually "no outdoor antennas" became very common on new construction and on serious renovations.

The situation got so common that when satellite TV became common (the kind with small dishes), the satellite TV people pushed the issue all the way to the Supreme Court. They won, too - but ONLY for TV antennas.

The whole thing was plain old CAPITALISM - maximize profits.

Even The Don wasn't allowed to erect a flag pole of a mere 80 feet height on his own property and had to pay $100,000 bribes to charity to have it allowed at a pitiful 70 feet. What chance do the rest of us have?

It's called "karma", because folks like him are a major reason for no-antennas clauses.

What lovely photos were posted above of the good old days. Freedom and responsibility has declined to micro-managed straight jacket existence. Those kids these days would not be allowed on the road, would have to wear luminous clothing, helmets and steel capped boots.

The moment they get off the plane to have a holiday in a free country like the Kingdom of Thailand however, the count-down begins: many of them die each year there from accidents of all kinds, since they're experiencing FREEDOM for the first time but never had any training nor experience of RESPONSIBILITY.

Sorry, but that's just nonsense.

Some people remember the past with rose-colored glasses. They recall all the "dangerous" stuff they did, back when, and how they survived. And how now, today, it seems everything has to be bubble-wrapped.

What they forget is those who didn't survive. The kid who fell off his bike, hit his head on the curb, and died. Or was in an institution for the rest of his life. The kid who fooled around with chemicals and blew off his hand, blinded himself, or poisoned himself. The kids who played on the railroad tracks and were cut in half when a train ran over them.

In my neighborhood, growing up, there was and is a high tension power line that feeds a substation. 90 foot tall steel poles (I-beams). I remember how, every year or two, some kids would shinny up the pole to the point where the climbing steps began, then climb up. Usually done on a dare. And every once in a while, one of them would slip and fall to his death, or get too close to a wire, be burned beyond recognition and his dead body would fall to the ground. The EMTs would clean up the mess and a grieving family would bury him. The power company finally put anti-climb shields on every single pole to stop it.

But nobody remembers that sort of thing.
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WB2KSP
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« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2018, 01:28:45 PM »

N2EY, we've never met but I have to say after reading your posts it's my opinion that you are an amazing person and one of the very few who get it. Too many people bring their political ideology to this forum where it really doesn't belong. Your posts are a breath of fresh air. Thank you!


**In the thread "HOA/Condo board out of control - not just regarding antennas anymore"  I meant to type BUY, not BY. However, I couldn't modify my post because the thread has been locked. So as not to appear illiterate I am correcting that post here.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 01:37:03 PM by WB2KSP » Logged
K7JQ
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Posts: 1002




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« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2018, 02:43:47 PM »

N2EY, we've never met but I have to say after reading your posts it's my opinion that you are an amazing person and one of the very few who get it. Too many people bring their political ideology to this forum where it really doesn't belong. Your posts are a breath of fresh air. Thank you!


**In the thread "HOA/Condo board out of control - not just regarding antennas anymore"  I meant to type BUY, not BY. However, I couldn't modify my post because the thread has been locked. So as not to appear illiterate I am correcting that post here.

I tried replying to your post this morning, but during my writing, the thread was locked. When I hit "post", an error message popped up advising that it was locked Huh. Go figure. Anyway, it wasn't that important to start a new thread. In retrospect, just a rehash of stuff I stated before. Good luck in finding a new(er) home that allows ham antennas. Unfortunately CC&R's prohibiting such aren't going away (anytime soon anyway).

73,  Bob K7JQ
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W9FIB
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Posts: 2126




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« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2018, 02:50:30 PM »

People do dumb things. They did in the past, and will in the future. So condemning a past generation is easy. Remembering all the current dumb things is hard. But then again a future generation will look back and do the same to this generation.

And what does it have to do with antenna restrictions? Nothing other the for some to feel good about themselves by using the blame game.

I happen to like old pictures and how things were done before I was born. Don't need rose colored glasses to look at pictures. They mostly explain themselves. And yes its fun to look what and how when people hoist junkyards into the sky.
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73, Stan
Walk a mile in my shoes BEFORE you tell me how bad they are.
N2EY
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Posts: 4641




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« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2018, 02:35:13 PM »

Where I live, things like keeping properties in decent shape are taken care of by nuisance ordinances, enforced by the local government. Which means.....taxes and a government department.

But with HOAs and CC&Rs, "smaller government" is possible, because the HOA does all that - paid for by HOA fees. And the HOA doesn't have to deal with things like simple majorities changing the rules, nor the Constitution.

I agree that can be true in many cases. However when you live in a more rural area where very few, if any, HOA's are present; then local government can make their own ordinances. And they are sometimes needed.

It is also possible that local ordinances predate an HOA development in their jurisdictions and have never been changed.

But, where I live isn't rural at all. We have reasonable municipal nuisance ordinances. And yet, everyone keeps their places nice without a book of no-you-can't rules, nor folks checking up on how high the grass is, what color the front door is painted, or the exact moment you put the trash out and take the empty can back.

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K4PIH
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Posts: 96




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« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2018, 08:36:47 AM »

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22405575_1667796463284607_88633101065355356_n.jpg?oh=5338781771ba05caf951113415c9f61c&oe=5A72DF9E



 Look!!! All of those towers in the background and no one has painted their home in orange stripes. How did we survive before Home Owners Associations told us that everything must be exactly the same. Oh look, someone left their garage door open and there are cars left on the street. Here a fine there a fine everywhere a fine, fine.

I wounder who will have to pay when baseball will make a ding on that car parked along the street.

But generally many HOA rules are written to replace common sense: I do not think anyone will object if there are Porsche or Corvette parked on the driveway in the neighborhood, but not so if it is a rusted clunker. Due to "political correctness" rules cannot say "do not leave your rusted piece of junk" on the street, and instead prohibit ANY car outside of garage. Many "no antenna" rules were written when you needed 10 feet dish to receive satellite TV stream.

Unfortunately due to legal system around HOA it is very hard to rewrite any once set rules, even if they do not make sense anymore. But this is all other topic.



There are many HOA's in the DC metro area that have very restrictive rules about vehicles. One in particular states that a car cannot be left in the driveway for more than 30 minutes. Another does not allow pickup trucks or large SUV's and visitors cannot park in the driveway of the home being visited. Instead visitors must park in a designated parking area (away from the homes) and the resident has to drive down and pick them up.
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