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Author Topic: "DX Cluster". Hardly.  (Read 7806 times)
W1NK
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2018, 05:58:04 AM »

For a real knee slapping good time just wait until Bouvet. There will be 20 spots in a row reaffirming what we already know 8 days into the DXpedition, that 3Y0Z is indeed on the air. You will also be bombarded with such gems as:

TU for 6 bands
 UP UP UP
 80 open but no 3Y0Z
 wrkd with dipole
 20 kc wide pileup
 no ears
 BINGO!!!
 When SSB?
 1st call
 SPLIT, SPLIT, SPLIT
 when cw?
 tu #331
 when rtty?
 CHAOS!!  
 pse beam SA
 Weak (also week)
 took 14 hours
 when FT8?         

8 days?  I give 'em 8 minutes!  Grin

Frank, W1NK
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N0UN
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Posts: 82


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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 05:26:04 PM »

Filters. DX Spider nodes have the most flexibility.

Indeed.

reject/spot 0 call_dxcc 226,197

The absolute best filter ever made.  And it's free.

N0UN
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N0UN
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Posts: 82


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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 06:05:34 PM »

Whatever happened to the "DX" Cluster?

I can't find it, anywhere.

N0UN

For a man who has worked even the #1 most wanted country, nothing is a "DX" anymore.  Grin Grin Grin

HNY Wayne

Marvin VE3VEE

Thanks Marvin, Happy New Year to you too!

N0UN
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KM4SII
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Posts: 493




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« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2018, 07:54:06 PM »

Oh, by the way Wayne, I heard you working Amir (4X6TT) the other week on 20m SSB. I worked him right after you... it had been a while since I last made contact with Amir.

You had a HUGE 40 or 50 over signal on my little delta loop  Smiley

Happy new year to you de Mason - KM4SII  Smiley
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AE5X
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Posts: 1138




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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2018, 08:03:11 AM »

Here is part of the problem (via Facebook). ICG is the ARRL's International Grid Chase event for 2018:


« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 08:05:15 AM by AE5X » Logged

VA3VF
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Posts: 1455




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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2018, 08:09:08 AM »

Here is part of the problem (via Facebook). ICG is the ARRL's International Grid Chase event for 2018:

Agree, and from a past president of the League, so it must be ok.  Roll Eyes
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N3QE
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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2018, 08:29:08 AM »

Here is part of the problem (via Facebook). ICG is the ARRL's International Grid Chase event for 2018:

Agree, and from a past president of the League, so it must be ok.  Roll Eyes

Well really, it is OK!

Back when the cluster spots moved over VHF packet and/or phone lines I could see folks complaining about bandwidth.

Heck, just a couple guys hooking up to the packet cluster and VIEWING the spots sucked down too much bandwidth on many nodes.
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VA3VF
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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2018, 08:32:52 AM »

Here is part of the problem (via Facebook). ICG is the ARRL's International Grid Chase event for 2018:

Agree, and from a past president of the League, so it must be ok.  Roll Eyes

Well really, it is OK!

Back when the cluster spots moved over VHF packet and/or phone lines I could see folks complaining about bandwidth.

Heck, just a couple guys hooking up to the packet cluster and VIEWING the spots sucked down too much bandwidth on many nodes.

I don't think the concern is bandwidth related, but the 'deviation of purpose'. DX Cluster was for DX...ok, the 'right' grid square can be DX as well, but you get the drift, I hope. Wink
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N0UN
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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2018, 08:36:57 AM »

Oh, by the way Wayne, I heard you working Amir (4X6TT) the other week on 20m SSB. I worked him right after you... it had been a while since I last made contact with Amir.

You had a HUGE 40 or 50 over signal on my little delta loop  Smiley

Happy new year to you de Mason - KM4SII  Smiley

Happy New Year Mason

N0UN
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N0UN
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« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2018, 08:43:45 AM »

I don't think the concern is bandwidth related, but the 'deviation of purpose'. DX Cluster was for DX...ok, the 'right' grid square can be DX as well, but you get the drift, I hope. Wink

I guess it's not the "DX Cluster" anymore - maybe that's why I can't find it.  "DX" was removed from their wording.  When did that happen?

N0UN
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VA3VF
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Posts: 1455




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« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2018, 08:48:02 AM »

I don't think the concern is bandwidth related, but the 'deviation of purpose'. DX Cluster was for DX...ok, the 'right' grid square can be DX as well, but you get the drift, I hope. Wink

I guess it's not the "DX Cluster" anymore - maybe that's why I can't find it.  "DX" was removed from their wording.  When did that happen?

N0UN

There is nothing wrong with having other niche systems. I can think of hamspots, and wsprnet, to mention just two that I use. Somebody could develop a gridnet/grid cluster.
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WO7R
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Posts: 2850




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« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2018, 09:26:01 AM »

I am increasingly concerned that the Grid Chase is bad for DXing.

On FT8, particularly.

It's already true that on (say) 20m, you can get drowned in stateside to stateside "action" and never see DX (even common DX) you should be able to easily hear.  But, the "FM Capture effect" seems true for FT8, so if the channel is jammed, you only hear the closer-in stations.  If you're a little savvy about it, you can track this using other calls on PSKReporter and see what the other guy is seeing (that is, not seeing you or even stateside at all).

There's just too many damn grids.  The league goofed here.  On HF, they should have done what CQ did and gone with "Fields" (the first two "letters" of the gridsquare).

We're about to find out what happens if we all decided to go mad for WPX.

Whether this results in too many cluster spots is, frankly,  secondary question.
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VA3VF
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« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2018, 09:40:06 AM »

I am increasingly concerned that the Grid Chase is bad for DXing.

On FT8, particularly.

It's already true that on (say) 20m, you can get drowned in stateside to stateside "action" and never see DX (even common DX) you should be able to easily hear.  But, the "FM Capture effect" seems true for FT8, so if the channel is jammed, you only hear the closer-in stations.  If you're a little savvy about it, you can track this using other calls on PSKReporter and see what the other guy is seeing (that is, not seeing you or even stateside at all).

There's just too many damn grids.  The league goofed here.  On HF, they should have done what CQ did and gone with "Fields" (the first two "letters" of the gridsquare).

We're about to find out what happens if we all decided to go mad for WPX.

Whether this results in too many cluster spots is, frankly,  secondary question.

Keeping the hobby alive, and the bands busy, are good endeavours, but something in the back of my mind tells me this is not the best way to do it. No, I don't have suggestions, yet. Wink

Are we becoming addicted to a yearly shot? If none is forthcoming, is the year dead? Where are the contest bashers? This only replaces 5904 with 59FN25, for an entire year! Will the league 'sell' awards for this?

The cluster was only one aspect, you just mentioned FT8, there may be others.

Food for thought.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 09:44:18 AM by VA3VF » Logged
WO7R
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Posts: 2850




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« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2018, 09:53:39 AM »

There is nothing wrong with an "annualized" activity to boost participation.  Especially for not-DX to tell the truth.

"We the People", the W1AW-WAS thing, the NPOTA thing, all worked very well.  There were no "long term" awards for them, just some sort of end-of-the-year stuff.  In other words, they were all "one shots".  Perfectly fine, IMO.

And, they tended to boost activity for WAS, which is not a bad thing in itself.  I like WAS even if it is a bit easy for a well-equipped DX station.  I remember in my very green days what an accomplishment it was to make 5BWAS with my crappy station.  But, it got me going to better things as I accomplished something while learning to do better as I went.

The choice of the grid, however, I think is a poor one.  And, to make it worse, their colleagues/sometimes competitor CQ reasoned this out years ago and came up with the right answer with the CQ Field Award.  A Field-based chase would have worked just fine.  True, it is not a popular award, but it came up with the right set of answers.  We already have WPX if you just want to "work everyone" or nearly so.

Maybe you make it grid based for 10m and up, but for 12m and below, the Field is the obviously superior unit when you consider the totality of what is trying to be done.
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VA3VF
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« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2018, 10:00:21 AM »

Maybe you make it grid based for 10m and up, but for 12m and below, the Field is the obviously superior unit when you consider the totality of what is trying to be done.

I'm afraid the number of grids, at 12 cents each, could have been a factor. This is why I asked about awards.

As for annual events, I agree, they are not necessarily bad. Contests are annual events, and more along the lines of the grid chase, the DX Marathon.

As you said, this particular one and/or how it was devised, may not be good.
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