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Author Topic: US Amateurs out of band?  (Read 1069 times)
WI4CW
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« on: March 05, 2004, 11:41:42 PM »

Folks - set me straight ...but as I listen all over 40 meters as I write this... I know I don't hear US amateur callsigns working the Non US amateurs - in the bands that are specified as CW, RTTY, DATA only in the US by our FCC.... Is this my imagination or is there a provision that I missed?

I work both phone and cw -- but when I go to the cw subbands - I dont want to hear no darn voices - except the ones in my head Hi Hi. (Yes - I realize the non US hams have phone provisions that reach down into CW only bands in the US).

thanks in advance,

Ken
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K0RFD
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Posts: 1368




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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2004, 11:56:12 PM »

I've heard Americans on 40 meters who go down into the CW/Data portion of the band on phone and tell a DX station to "listen up" so that Americans can work him.

There are always morons who will operate out of band.

On the other hand, I have also heard law-abiding Americans respond to a DX's phone CQ via a CW response.  In several cases I heard last week, the CW guys who were being legal actually GOT the QSO, while the moron who illegally transmitted out of band via SSB *didn't* get the qso.

The point is, there's no difference between going out of band to work a station and going out of band to tell a guy to "listen up"  so you *can* work him.  Either way you're out of band.

The problem with *WORRYING* about this is that if you decide you need to yell at somebody for doing this, then YOU are out of band yourself.

So far I've learned just to chuckle at the morons.
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N6AJR
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2004, 04:44:54 AM »

I just finished working "SPLIT" on 40 for the contest.. the dx sits where he is legal, 7.00 to 7.100 and we listen there and tx in the 7.150 to 7.300 area where we are legal to tx.  we Listen Down and they Listen Up
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W8JI
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2004, 08:47:12 AM »

In the CQ WW 160 SSb contest, there were several people operating with emissions below 1800kHz. The bandplan says no USA SSB below 1843, but some Bozo's were actually using "dial frequencies" as low as 1801 on LSB which places them clearly outside the USA band, let along outside the area people with good operating manners would use.

I've noticed a trend in people not understanding how SSB works or not caring. An AA3 station in PA, for example, not only goes out of band to tell people to listen up, he also goes below 7.150kHz on 40 meters to have full QSO's. The other day I heard him calling an OK2 on 7148kHz. I've heard some pretty big name well-known DX'ers go outside the band on 40 for a QSO.

I often hear people on 40 meters using 7150 or 7152 lower sideband, which is clearly illegal. So it seems people are either forgetting how the thing on the desk with all the lights and knobs works, or they are intentionally breaking either hard laws or softer bandplans that good operators follow. In either case it is a disturbing trend.

73  Tom
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AC5E
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Posts: 3585




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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2004, 08:54:18 AM »

I do occasionaly hear a US callsign given below 7.15 telling a DX station to "listen up." At least some of these have strong accents that don't jibe with the name attached to the call - so the legitimacy of at least some of those remains in doubt.

However, I hear a LOT of SSB stations transmitting sidebands outside either the phone subbands, or outside of band entirely. A phone signal takes at least 2500 Hz and people who park themselves on 1.800.2 or 1.802.0 LSB, or 14.349.5 USB for that matter, and call CQ are just as illegal as a US ham yelling "listen up" to a DX station on 7.060.  

73  Pete Allen  AC5E
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N8UZE
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Posts: 1524




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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2004, 09:53:14 AM »

Don't forget that some US callsigns are outside of ITU region 2 and thus follow different rules than those of us in region 2 are required to adhere to.  There may be some different provisions for those in the Caribean also but I'm not sure of that.

However, there are a lot of ignorant lids out there too.
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K0BG
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2004, 10:33:14 AM »

When you operate splits, the rules require you to monitor your transmit frequency to avoid interferance. From my experience, most don't.

Alan, KØBG
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KC8VWM
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2004, 08:13:32 PM »

Are you sure you are not recieving a harmonic signal?
This has been known to happen...
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W8JI
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2004, 09:35:05 PM »

These were real people operating outside the band, and they were local USA stations. I know who several of them are.

I've come to the conclusion that it is a combination of some people being ignorant about how a SSB radio works and others just clearly don't care if they go out of band.

Part of it could be that some came in from HF'er CB, where they received training on how to operate out of band.

Anyway, it happens a lot on 40. I was just amazed to see it happen so much in the CQ WW 160, where LSB staions got all the way on 1800 kHz at times. Very clearly ENTIRELY out of band and into navigation and telemetry channels that are actually still used!
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ON4MGY
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2004, 06:56:10 AM »

Hi,

As a European station I'll have to stay below 7100.0 and listen between 7150. and 7300.0 for US stations. Just worked a couple of them in the contest but a lot of US-stations are actually listening in our CW-sub band, so we'll have to violate the rules to work that station. According to our band-plan, phone can be used between 7040.0 and 7100.0
We're hoping we'll get our expansion 7100.0 to 7200.0 soon. Here in Belgium (ON) it is expected that in a couple of weeks from now we'll get the band 7100.0-7200.0 on a secundairy base. It'll be a lot easier for us to work USA stations then.

73 de ON4MGY Nic
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N8UZE
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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2004, 09:48:55 AM »

Some US amateurs do not understand the difference between band PLAN and REGULATED band limits.  It is not well covered in either the study material or the test questions.  So some end up out of band.  Sooner or later they get a notice either from the Official Observers or from the FCC.

In addition, the study guides and test questions do not address the issue of signal width and operating at or close to the band limits.  Some amateurs actually think it's ok to operate right at 7.150 using lower sideband.  They do not know that it puts their signal out of band.  Again sooner or later, they get a notice from an Official Observer or the FCC.

In my classes, I stress these issues even though they really aren't covered by the tests.  I consider it an important aspect of operating/
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KB7YOU
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2004, 03:35:02 PM »

Wow,

I thought it was me. I've been listening to US stations doing the contest this weekend and I thought that there was some kind of rule change that I missed.

I was also very disappointed to hear so many SSB stations QRM'ing CW on the CW/data subbands.

Also, for the first time ever I heard SSB stations deliberately or ignorantly QRM'ing other stations AND then complaining about the other stations. How could a HAM who has studied for and received a license NOT know that transmitting voice 200-300 Hz above/below another station is bad?

I've avoided all the talk about the "dumming down" of amateur radio but I guess that it must be true to some extent.

It's also a real shame that some hams don't understand how LSB/USB works and transmit out of band due to ignorance. I don't know which worries me more; are the doing it deliberately or simply because of ignorance.

Any it seems to be a real shame. 99% of my on-air experience is excellent. This weekend was a real eye opener.

I will keep striving for excellence on the air and I will always work to learn new things and improve my existing skills. Hopefully, if many of us do this we can set a good example for some of these less than perfect operators.  

Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to inform an operator who is causing a problem? It would be nice to help them but I don't really want to get involved in some on the air pissing contest with another ham.

CHRIS
KB7YOU
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K0HZI
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Posts: 470




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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2004, 09:17:46 PM »

A few weeks ago on about 14.070 (PSK) I monitored a station who must have left his VOX active after a PSK QSO.  For a half hour could hear him and another ham chatting on a repeater, most likely two meters, the repeater ID'd in voice but was to low of volume and mixed with PSK tones to catch the ID.  I know this was not a harmonic of two meter FM. Only could get parts of calls due to the PSK tones mixed in with the voices.  The calls were in the 9 area so was not local freak signal mixing.  Hope the ham at the base realized what he was broadcasting in the CW part of the band when he shut down the sation for the day or night.  
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WA4MJF
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Posts: 1003




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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2004, 09:58:28 PM »

US stations in Regions 1 and 3
can operate legally below 7.1 MHz
using voice.

73 de Ronnie
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WB4QNG
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Posts: 362




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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2004, 12:24:01 AM »

If you heard me down in the 100 portion transmitting this weekend forgive me. I notice a few times I forgot to hit the split button.  I found myself transmitting on the frequency I was listening on a couple of times. Didn't do it on purpose. Remember for the first 25 years I operated a radio that didn't have this feature.
Terry
WB4QNG
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