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Author Topic: HAMSTIK DIPOLES????  (Read 6199 times)
WB6ZFQ
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Posts: 2




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« on: May 03, 2001, 07:38:46 PM »

I saw a nifty little mounting device at HRO that will allow you to use 2 HamStik antennas to form a mini dipole.

I was thinking of using something like this for QRP use at my CCR restricted QTH..any thoughts on how this might work appreciated, especially the suitability of using the 40M configuration on other bands with a transmatch, etc.

Thanks in advance

:harry
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N6SVP
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Posts: 77




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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2001, 12:22:03 PM »

I was thinking the SAME thing for 80M!!  Please also let me know if you get any good advice on this.

sheldon_hambrick@hotmail.com
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KB9UMT
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2001, 02:25:29 AM »

There has been some talk on the Hamstick dipoles here on this site in other forums....check these out:

http://www.eham.net/forums/Elmers/2010
http://www.eham.net/forums/TowerTalk/162

Please don't let restrictions keep you off the bands!  There are antennas that you can purchase that are very stealth.....Isoloop, MFJ loops, Isotron, Outbacker..etc..these are not cheap but will get you on the air so make some contacts.  Don't forget that if you are going to run low wattage or QRP try PSK31 or cw and I would bet you get twice the response on contacts!

Now if you don't want to pay for a commercial antenna I would say get as much wire up in the attic as high as you can and feed with ladder to a tuner (remember too that some smaller colored wire most likely would never be seen if you are discrete about putting it up outside!).

73's and good luck on your antennas..de KB9UMT Don


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N6AJR
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Posts: 9921




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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2001, 05:29:03 AM »

I just bought two 40 meter sticks, the double center mount and 20 feet of rg 8x to set up the very same system on my next day off. I have an antenna bridge so I can tune it exactly...  If you look in the back of some of the catalogs you will find a device you park one wheel of your car on and mount a mast in it. This way you can use it mobile (parked from the top of a hill) and what would happen if you put another set at the other end of the house and co-phased them with coax...33 feet 6 inches on 40 should do it... a beam you can move around your shack ...inside... hmmmmmmm
 Its beats nuttin, and a bit more directional than a random wire laid out yonder... good luck  ... bye the way the setup cost right at $75 including some good coax. now I just got to find a mast... if I use the broom I don't have to sweep any more... yup , there is the mast....tom.. N6AJR

P.S.  you can also mount it verticle (probably on a wood or pvc mast , less interaction than with a metal one )and have a shortened 1/2 wave verticle, no ground plane necessary.. put that stick in your drain pipe and key up...
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N4VI
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Posts: 9




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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2001, 01:44:25 PM »

Harry,

Here is a link to ve6vk's site where he describes a shortned 20m beam that uses hamsticks.  If a beam can be built with them, certainly a dipole will work.

That said, I would not have great expectations on using a 40m hamstick dipole on other bands with a tuner.

73's es good luck,

chris, n4vi

P.S.  Whoops, almost forgot the link!

http://www.qix.net/~wd8mgq/cisa/pictures/minibeam.html
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WC5C
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2001, 08:55:44 AM »

I wonder if anyone has a 160M shortened dipole with something like a hamstick?
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W0FM
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Posts: 2056




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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2001, 04:26:11 PM »

I put two Hustler mobile masts end-to-end, dipole style, using some CB antenna mirror-mount hardware from Radio Shack and I fed them at the center with coax.  On the ends of each mast, I put the Hustler multi-band adapter plate that allows installing three additional band resonators.  I have two resonators for each band (one for each end of the "dipole") and can have up to four bands operational at any time (one resonator on the mast end and one in each of the three holes in the multi-band adapter plate).  This dipole is in the attic of my antenna-restricted home and I rotate it with an old TV rotator.  Of course, the pattern is just broadside and the whole thing amounts to a compromise, but hey, it radiates!  Consider using the Huster "Super Resonators" (actually designed for high power) even if you don't intend to run high power because they'll provide you with greater bandwidth and don't cost that much more.  Prior to installing the antenna in my attic, I mounted it on a 10' length of PVC and stuck the PVC "mast" it in the umbrella hole on the patio table on my deck.  I have a second set of the back-to-back Hustler masts with just 80M resonators on the ends (they were too heavy for the multi-band dipole).  I'm sure you could do the same thing with HamSticks.  Nothing fantastic, but it provides plenty of band choices, SOME directivity and radiates better than a piece of wet rope! Good luck with the antenna.  73, Terry WØFM
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N6AJR
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2001, 01:54:31 AM »

I purchased a pair of 40 meter ham sticks, as I noted earlier, and finally got around to putting them together. The assembly was quite straight foward and easy to do.  For tuning purposes I attached the dipole antenna (mounted on the neat little double gizmo from HRO)on to a 5 or 6 foot stick I had in the garage and stuck them in the center hole of the patio table. I wedged the pole in with a stick so it wouldn't turn.

I adjusted the ham sticks for lowest SWR on the frequency at which I operate most, by adjusting the tips in and out till I was happy.  They tuned to an swr of about 1.5 or 1.6, 5 feet off the ground.  I also live in a stucco house so they are probably with in 15 feet of all the chicken wire hidden in the walls.

The antenna is quite narrow banded, at least on the ground and has a useable band with of 20 or 30 KHZ over all but it tunes just fine with an antenna tuner so that will not pose a problem. I am running this in the horizontal orentation.

I have yet to put the mini dipole up in the air,on the roof,  but it runs about 1 "S" unit or so lower on the meter as compared to my hustler 5 band vertical. The audio is also down a bit, just barely noticible but there is a lot less noise and static on the horizontal dipole.  One of these day I am actually going put it up in the air 30 feet or so and see how it works for real.  I am also considering mounting it in a verticle orentation as an omni directional antenna.  As a note here, a fellow ham suggested that if I am mounting it as a vertical and not up real high, to mount it UPSIDE DOWN as this would lower the angle of radiation ( the ham stick connected to the center conductor pointing down) and make it work better on DX.  I think this may be true.  I will have to give it a try some day. Also no radials are needed as this is a half wave dipole.

Over all performance of the mini dipole at 5 feet of height is what I would consider  useful.  Mounting it higher should improve the reception and radiation pattern as it a direct function of the height over the ground.  I would say that if this is the only antenna you can put up then it will work.  It is not a full sized antenna, but it tunes, transmits and receives ok.  There is a bit of directional function to it but not noticible when mounted at 5 feet. I got good reports on the transmitted signal, but all reports were lower than the vertical by at least an S unit.  

So, bottom line, yes this will work, and work fair to middeling as an only antenna.  Another use would be to set it up as a portable and use it mobile from your parked car on a hill top.  This would probably exceed the performance of a verticle on the auto. As an easy to install field day set up it would be great, and you could probably carry the antenna and 4  five foot sections of tv mast to set it up a bit.

If I ever get around to mounting this in the air I will give another evaluation and let you know how it works.


tom  N6AJR
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W4DLM
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2001, 07:16:34 PM »

I saw somewhere instructions for making a 3 element 20 meter beam with these hamstiks.  This would be especially useful for taking on trips etc.  Does anyone have any more information on this?
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N4VI
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Posts: 9




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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2001, 09:35:35 PM »

Here's the link I posted in my message above.  Is ths what you're looking for or do you want more info then is contained there?

http://www.qix.net/~wd8mgq/cisa/pictures/minibeam.html


73's

chris, n4vi

P.S.  I just checked it, it still works.
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KE4SKY
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2001, 09:46:28 AM »

Virginia ARES / RACES has experimented with hamstick dipoles and now recommends them as expedient, portable antennas for operations.  The 2:1 VSWR bandwidth is narrower on the lower bands because the whips are proportionally smaller compared to the longer electrical wavelengths.  Pairs of 20 meter whips on the Lakeview dipole mount measured about 100kHz, 40 meter whips 40khz and 75 meters about 20kHz.  If your rig has an internal tuner the useable frequency span approximately doubles without a significant loss of antenna efficiency.

On-air comparisons were made between the portable whip dipoles elevated 20 feet compared to halfwave wire dipoles for 40 and 75 meters, the most common bands for daytime and night "short path," NVIS, EmComm operations.  On 40 meters two whips were about 10dB (1-1/2 S-units) below the 40-meter dipole.  Two 75-meter whips were about 18dB (almost 3 S-units) below the 75-meter half-wave dipole.  This is no surprise since a 75 meter dipole is 130 feet compared to the 16 feet of the two whips.  On 20 meters we were both pleased and surprised to see only a 6dB (one S-unit) difference compared to a G5RV antenna.  Elevating the portable whips higher than 20 feet would certainly improve efficiency on the lower bands, but 20 feet is very suitale for short-path NVIS operations out to 300 miles, common for ARES / RACES applications on 40 and 75- meters.

Several of our members have used this system to check into the Old Dominion Emergency Net on 3.947 from condos or other antenna restricted areas.  NB3O used  hamstick dipoles to make contacts with European Russia on 20 meters from a condo in San Luis, CA.  I used them while operating portable from an aid station in the Pentagon South parking lot at the Marine Corps Marathon last year and worked all up and down the east coast of the U.S., as well as Prince Edward Island, San Juan Puerto Rico and Mexico City, with good signal reports on the Intercon and Maritime Mobile Service Nets.

A variation used by NB3O provides dual-band HF coverage with a single feedline.  Two Lakeview dipole mounts are bolted together with their center-isolated posts connected using #12 gauge wire and two sets of whips for 40 and 75 meters.  There is minor interaction between the whips, although the #12 gauge wire looks slightly capacitive.  Connecting the coax to the lower band dipole mount reduces the effective of the #12 gauge wire.  A 25-foot length of coax is coiled at the base of the mast as an RF choke to reduce stary RF from coupling onto the shield.  The samne could be accomplished by using ferrite beads oin the coax feed near the dipole mount.  As with any transmitting antenna, ensure that the radiating elements, especially the ends, are kept safely away from bystanders!

While not as efficient as a full-sized wire dipole which is resonant for the frequency, the hamstick dipole is superior to a vertical antenna for short path EmCom on 40 and 75 meters, because it is horizontally polarized and provides the necessary high radiation angle for NVIS operations.  It also provides an effective directional antenna on the higher frequencies, such as 20 meters, and is a very effective DX performer in that application for those who live in antenna restricted communities.

73 de KE4SKY
Virginia State RACES Training Officer
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KH6DC
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2001, 02:31:07 AM »

Yes it works well but not as good as say a dipole.  Tried it when I was living in a townhouse with CC&R.  However, I was allowed to put up a vertical, only to swing it down after use.

radio works had one the called "Micro Dipole" using two Hamstick copies and a dipole mount but it works and made many DX and stateside contacts.

73 and good luck,

Delwyn, AH6OK
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
KC4IWO
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Posts: 30




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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2001, 11:50:21 AM »

If you use a shortened dipole you will have a narrow spot in the band to operate on because of swr problems. Sure a tuner will take care of it, but do not feed the mini dipole with coax. If the coax does not see a 50 ohm load it will act like a resistor, and with the amount of loss you will have with a dipole only 16 feet long compared to the proper length of 32 feet, you can not afford the loss of mismatch with coax. Instead find 75 ohm ladder line and use your tuner. the ladder line will not have the same loss as the coax and will even act as part of the ant. system when the ant you are feeding is not a match to it. Very much like a G5RV.  Good luck with the 40meter hamstick dipole.
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K8DXX
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2001, 11:31:06 PM »

I have used a pair of Hamstick "clones" made by ProAm/Valor to make a "micro dipole" a-la Radio Works.  I selected them over hamsticks because the ProAm/Valors are 8 feet in length, rather than 7 feet for the Hamsticks.  I assumed that they'd (ProAm) be a little more efficient (no scientific proof on that theory, though).

The whips were made into a dipole configuration through the use of a DAK mount.  They were fed with about 25 feet of RG8X.  The band used was 17 meters.  This particular micro dipole gave me 1.3:1 over the entire band.

Results were generally favorable.  The micro dipole worked better than "tuning" the driven element of my former HyGain TH3MKIV tribander.  After 3+ years of good service outdoors, I took both the tribander and microdipole down and replaced them with a Force 12 C4EXL (10 ele. on a 30 foot bom covering 40 - 10).  So far, I have no opinion as to which works better, on 17 meters, at least.

73 de Bill / K8DXX
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