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Author Topic: Antenna above 200 ft rule?  (Read 1423 times)
KC2FDQ
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Posts: 23




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« on: April 27, 2004, 12:54:21 PM »

There is a Part 97 rule that says:

ยง97.15 Station antenna structures.
(a) Owners of certain antenna structures more than 60.96 meters (200 feet) above ground level at the site or located near or at a public use airport must notify the Federal Aviation Administration and register with the Commission as required by Part 17 of this chapter.


I am trying to get a club station going, and the antenna might be on the top of a 9 story building.  This section (above) is mentioning about a particular form that I would have to fill out, but I can't seem to find the form.  The proposed antenna is a Maldol HVU-8 is only ~8.6 ft.
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N9FIK
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Posts: 28




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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2004, 02:33:08 PM »

I would start here.


http://wireless.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/wtb-faq-asr.pl


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N9FIK
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Posts: 28




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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2004, 02:35:01 PM »

Actaully, this would be a better place to start...


http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/towairSearch.jsp



-mike
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KA3RFE
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Posts: 185




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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2004, 05:47:19 PM »

You may not need to file any forms for an atenna on top of a building unless it is near an airport. It's towers that the regulation is talking about.

73, Pete KA3RFE
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N9FIK
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Posts: 28




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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2004, 08:26:42 AM »

If the structure is over 200' above the surface of the ground it needs obstruction lighting...even if the building does not have any towers on it.

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KC2FDQ
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Posts: 23




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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2004, 11:31:09 AM »

I was going to use a Maldol HVU-8 antenna, which is roughly 8 1/2 feet.  There are a lot of antennas on the roof of the building of where the antenna will be.  Some are "significantly higher" than my antenna will be.  Does the lighting rule still apply to an 8 1/2 foot antenna?
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N3ZKP
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Posts: 2008




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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2004, 01:52:19 PM »

If the others are teller, don't worry about it.

Why are you using the Maldol? It's a pretty inefficent antenna and not well constructed. There are much better constructed HF verticals out there that will far outperform the Maldol.

Also, what are the other antennas used for? Have you considered the possibility of interference if any of them are HF?

Lon
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KC2FDQ
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Posts: 23




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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2004, 02:09:33 PM »

I am using the Maldol HVU-8 because it has all the bands (80/40/20/15/10/2/6/440).  I figure that I am compromising with the college.  Yes, I know that there are other antennas out there, but if they had a choice between an 8 ft antenna, and a 26 ft antenna, I think they would choose to have the 8 ft.  I have thought about a wire antenna, although there's not that much room.

What other antennas should I look at??  (our budget is $2000)
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N3ZKP
Member

Posts: 2008




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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2004, 11:48:31 PM »

The Maldol will probably do decent job on 2 and 440, possible on 6, but for HF it will be better than no antenna at all. An 8.5" HF antenna is really asking a lot.

You will be bettter off with a decent dual-band vertical for 2/440 and a  real HF antenna for the other bands. Do some looking at catalogs and read the reviews here on eHam before you spend the money. CushCraft makes some good verticals that don't cost an arem and a leg.

Personally, I like my Butternut HF6-V. It's mounted on top of a building, too. Just make sure you have a steel roof under it for a ground plane and it is properly installed.

Lon

PS - DON'T believe all of a manufacturer's advertising hype. Read the reviews!
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CROOKIE
Member

Posts: 41




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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2004, 01:29:39 PM »

Are you not (assuming you are not adding this to an existing antenna structure or within 20,000 ft of a runway longer than 3200 ft, etc.) exempted from notifying the FAA under 47CFR17.14(b)?

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=17&SECTION=14&YEAR=2000&TYPE=TEXT

OTOH 47CFR17.7(a) (200 ft rule) seems to contradict 47CFR17.14(b) though.
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CROOKIE
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Posts: 41




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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2004, 06:16:59 PM »

Another thought: is the 9 story building (plus the height of the new antenna) over 200 ft tall? Even at 20 ft/story it would only be 180 ft, and at a more realistic 12-15 ft/story, even a tall antenna tower would not exceed 200 feet above the ground, so seemingly 47CFR17.14(b) should exempt you from any FAA notification, barring close proximity to a runway or helipad.
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KC2MMI
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Posts: 621




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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2004, 04:13:58 PM »

The rule of thumb is that "one story" of a building is less than ten feet of height. Even with 8' ceilings each story is often only 9' in height.

So if you are in a 9-story building, the roof height is very unlikely to be more than 100' above ground level and that makes your 8' tall antenna...still more than 90' under the point where the FAA has to be notified of a 200' structure.

The easiest way to check with no math or lookups? Buy a 100' coil of rope or laundry line at any hardware store. Go up to the roof and let it hang down. If it reaches below the 4th floor <G> you know your building is less than 200' tall.<G>
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N6AJR
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Posts: 9913




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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2004, 05:54:06 PM »

try a good  dual band or 3 band 6 meter 2 meter 440 vert on one side ( ringo ranger style or comet/ diamond) and something like the hustler 5bvt ($159) or 6bvt ( has 30 m added) about 20 feet tall , works well, and for 160  good luck.. a tuff band to set up antennas. best is maybe a 160 dipole 1 to 1 balun and 133 feet on either side.  also look into Fan Dipole.

the stuff for lights on the antenna its with in 2 miles of the airport or a structure standing alone that could be a hazard. If you are downtown, there is other stuff higher.,
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12770




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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2004, 04:49:50 PM »

What you are missing is part 97.15(c) which exempts an antenna from the requirements of (a) and (b) if it is no higher than 20 feet above any natural object or existing manmade structure, other than an antenna structure.

In other words, there are no special requirments for an antenna that is not over 20 feet above the building it is mounted on, regardless of how high the building is.
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KA0GKT
Member

Posts: 555




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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2004, 09:27:36 PM »

The rule as I remember it allows you to exceed the top of the building by up to 20-Ft (6-M).  If you go over that height, then you must register the change in height.

If there are any other antennas on the building in question and they exceed the height of your antenna, then you should be Okay.

Now for the big cavaet.

If the building is required to have aircraft markers, and (I would assume) it has been registered as an antenna structure, you as a tennant on said antenna structure would be liable as a licensee to fines if the tower lighting were to be extinguished and a NOTAM (Notice To Air Men) were not filed in a timely manner with the local FAA service station or if repairs to the markers or beacon were not completed in an expeditious manner.

I realize that this raraly happens, however, I do remember that one Amateur was once fined for the tower owners' failure to properly maintain their tower painting and lighting.  Happily, the amateur convinced the commission that, since the tower space was donated and his antenna was lower than the level where lighting would be required, that it was unfair for the Amateur to be fined for the tower owner's inaction.

Good Luck on your antenna.

73

de KA0GKT/7
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