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Author Topic: Antenna in neighbor's tree but over my property -  (Read 4613 times)
WB0KFC
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Posts: 13




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« on: July 23, 2009, 06:49:28 PM »

Hello, My neighbor has discovered my 3 dipoles (10/15/20 mtr fan, 30 mtr inver V, 40 mtr inver V) that are hung in the huge cottonwood tree from branches that are over my land.  The tree is in their yard but it is so big that it covers several city lots with its huge canopy and limbs.  My dipoles are 50-60' up and are entirely over my land and they have been there in some fashion for 24 years. This is the only thing within blocks that has any height to it and provides a fine dipole support tree.  They asked me what they were and to take them down as it was their tree.  I told them they were short wave radio antennas and I would not take them down as they have no say in it.  They continue to pester me and I simply ignore them and don't take their calls anymore.  I assume what I am doing is legal and they cannot make me take them down.  Let me know if I am missing something or if these folks are just clueless. Thanks, Glenn
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NI0C
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 07:22:43 PM »

Ask your neighbors if they would prefer that you trim the parts of the tree growing over your property so that you would have room to put up a mast support for your antennas.  My guess is they would prefer your wires in the tree.

Every couple of years I hire a tree guy to trim the branches of my neighbors trees that are growing into my vertical antennas.  No permission is ever asked; we just do it.

73,
Chuck  NI0C
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N3OX
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 09:34:58 PM »

Apparently the law on this varies from state to state and is actually pretty complicated.

This might not be very open-and-shut.

You probably can trim the branches.

I don't know about hanging antennas in them.

Be careful with unpleasant neighbor disputes and trees.  Find out your state lawas and don't assume too much.

The law may be on your side.  I personally think it "should be" and that "common sense" should prevail that you can hang dipoles in the branches over your yard.

And I think it's probably much like trimming, which you're allowed to do most places if you don't harm the tree.

But I don't know for sure.  The next closest thing to antennas I could think of that might have more backing precedent were tree swings, so you might want to check that too.

73
Dan
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73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
N5LRZ
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2009, 07:15:21 AM »

Check with your legal represenative.  In many places ownership of a tree/or part of a tree is based on the location of the branches and or tree.  That is to say the branches over your property are yours  and the branches on the other guys are theirs.

Get with your legal rep and ask him and or her what the legal standard is for your location.
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KF7CG
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2009, 10:07:36 AM »

Also ask your legal Rep about the neighbor's responsibility for any damage the roots of his tree might cause. Lifted sidewalks, bowed fences, places where you can't mow because of roots, and the like. This might give you a club to help encourage a compromise.

In other words if he owns it all, he is responsible for it all.

KF7CG
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KB9CRY
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 10:20:14 AM »

Usually uou own the air rights directly over your property (except when trumped by the FAA).  You can trim all his tree straight up from your property line.

Do that and they you can put up the tower.
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WB0KFC
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 11:25:32 AM »

I would love to take the limbs down and put up a tower.  The last estimate I had to remove the branches from my propery was 5-8k!  This is a huge tree, 15-18 foot around at the base.  There are several 2-4 foot "branches" (really trunks) that are over my house and would be a real pain to take out given they would be working over my roof and all the electrical lines in the area.  Then there is the cost of the tower and beam and with 3 kids in college and another going next year, that also is out of the question right now.  I have got along since I was 13 (37 years licensed) with homebrew dipoles and 1/4 wave verticals.  The neighbors suddenly have TVI as well now that they know I am a amateur radio operator and they are calling on that.  "Are you on the radio right now?  I have a bad picture right now."  They have cable TV.  Forget that I have had the station set up next to them for 24 years and never a complaint.  I do not own an amp and run less than 100 watts at all times.  All other TV's in the neighborhood are fine.  Not sure what to do but ignore them....
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N3OX
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2009, 01:53:49 PM »

"I do not own an amp and run less than 100 watts at all times. All other TV's in the neighborhood are fine. Not sure what to do but ignore them....
 "

I think ignoring them is fine, but you might still want to check to make sure you are in the legal clear as far as hanging lines in their tree just to protect yourself from their increasing wrath ;-)

If it turns out that it's actually not legal for you to hang stuff in their tree for some weird reason, that would give them some real ammo.

73
Dan
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73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
KF7CG
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2009, 03:01:39 PM »

Your neighbor is in deep Huh?. Limbs that big crossing you roof and the power wires are a legitimate hazard! Cottonwoods only have about a 80-120 year life span and then they start to literally fall apart. Let's hope that that is not on to your house.

Really, the tree should be removed. St their expense.

KF7CG
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K1CJS
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2009, 09:12:10 AM »

Tell them straight out that you want them to cut the branches of 'their' tree so it doesn't hang over 'your' property--and at their expense.  Do that every time they insist that you get your antennas out of 'their' tree.  One is just as correct as the other.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2009, 09:12:27 AM »

Tell them straight out that you want them to cut the branches of 'their' tree so it doesn't hang over 'your' property--and at their expense.  Do that every time they insist that you get your antennas out of 'their' tree.  One is just as correct as the other.
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WD4ELG
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2009, 07:54:54 PM »

My 2 cents - disputes with the neighbors will never come out in your favor.  Regardless of the reason, it ain't worth it.  Esp when it comes to ham radio.  You have more to lose in your valuable hobby than they do with their TVI.  

Here's my recommendation:

1. Don't take the antennas down yet.  Try to change the subject to something else when talking with them.  For my neighbor, I took him a bottle of wine without asking, and tried to deflect the topic.

2. Find out where the TVI is coming from and eliminate it, if possible.  Do this by first confirming  that it ain't you.  (This is a big leap of faith on your part, but shows that you are taking the high road).  Have them come over and you transmit to verify it is not you.  Then try putting some simple RF chokes on the coax leads to the cable box on their units.

3. Tell them you're concerned about the branches because of safety reasons over your house.  Ask them if you can go 50/50 with them on a couple of the bigger branches, $500 each for a total of $1000 towards branch removal.  The goal is to, again, demonstrate good faith and rebuild the relationship.  Don't take down the branches with the antennas, or if you have to, don't take all of them down.  Just a couple, and you get to keep most of your antennas up.

3. Help educate them about something radio-related.  Does not have to be CW...are they aware of the weather alert radios for a couple of bucks?  Get them one, and explain how it works and how it saves lives.  Again showing your good faith and honest intentions.

4. With the relationship rebuilding, ask them if they have any objections to you keeping the antennas up...now that TVI is gone and some of the branches are down and the neighbors are protected with weather-alert radio and a nice bottle of wine when the power goes out.  If they STILL want the antennas down, then you can play hardball.  But I suspect the goodwill can go a long way towards their coming to a reasonable point of view.

Good luck

Mark Lunday
WD4ELG
http://wd4elg.net
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WB0KFC
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2009, 11:53:48 AM »

Thanks for the replies.  I am going to continue to ignore the neighbor based on the legal advice I have received.  All of it supports the concept that the tree is mine when it crosses the property line.  

We have never had a relationship with this neighbor so there is none to rebuild. As far as starting one, not with these folks.  

We have since had the police called twice, once for "thugs" in their front yard (my kids chasing a run away whiffle ball) and another to show the police where some child had put dirt on their windowsill and now they have an ant invasion?Huh??

Both times the cops just shook their heads and walked away. One of the cops was nice enough to use his hand and sweep the dirt away and declared "see, problem gone." I spoke with them regarding the ball game and they asked who was winning, the dads or the kids?

Great 6 metere opening over the weekend into NC from the midwest...
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NC4TB
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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 05:13:24 AM »

Before I started talking about antenna masts and towers I would check to see if there were any city/county/state ordinances concerning same,even if you are just bluffing. And be sure all of your antenna structure including support lines and attachments in the branches are on your side of the line. If they are, you shouldn't have a problem, as ownership of the limbs on your side is presumed generally to be yours. I'm glad I don't have neighbors like yours. Sounds like they are just looking for something to complain about. Don't play into their game by responding in kind.73
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KD4LLA
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2009, 02:09:00 PM »

Tree trimming is VERY expensive, about $120/hr here in my neck of the woods.  "Suggest" to your neighbor that he/she needs to trim their tree from your property.  The price alone will quiet most folks down.  Also, if trees or limbs are near electrical power lines, most electric utility companies will trim for free (as they do not want the limb to hit their lines).

Mike
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