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Author Topic: Why does my ant Tx better than it RX  (Read 765 times)
GW4IMC
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Posts: 10




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« on: July 26, 2006, 09:31:58 AM »

I use a G5RV ant for 20 metres. I consistantly get 3 to 4 s points better on transmit than on recieve. Why ?
The rig is a IC7400 but I have also tried 756 pro2 and Yaesu RX and still the same.
Any comments would be welcome
The ant G5RV at 30 feet inverted vee config
Thanks
GW4IMC
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WB2WIK
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Posts: 20666




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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 09:37:28 AM »

S meter readings don't mean much.  Many hams, like me, give reports based on how you sound and not what any meter indicates.  If you sound weak but I can understand you, you're "52" or "53," based purely on my ears.  The S-meter might indicate S9+.  But you won't sound strong if the noise level is S9.

Then, many hams give reports based on an S-meter reading alone -- which are pretty meaningless.  As in the example above, if a station has a high noise level (say, S7) and your signal is one S unit above the noise, your signal will indicate "S8" on his meter, even though he might barely be able to copy you.  If he gives an "S meter" report, it would be "S8."  A meaningless report.

I guess after 41 years of active hamming my current attitude is pretty much what it was 40 years ago: "Who cares?"

:-)

WB2WIK/6
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KZ1X
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Posts: 3229




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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2006, 10:11:21 AM »

There is no relationship between the meter indication of transmit power and the S meter reading on receive.
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W5DXP
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2006, 11:00:46 AM »

Turn on your preamp. :-)
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP
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KX8N
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Posts: 542




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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2006, 11:07:34 AM »

Although these guys are completely right, what kind of reports do you normally get?  The worst signal report I ever remember getting was like a 47 using a tuner and a rain gutter, while getting bad RF back into my mic.
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KB4QAA
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Posts: 2488




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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2006, 11:42:03 AM »

S meter readings are not standardized, so they are not precisely comparable between two different recieving stations.

Next, there is no way to compare your own transmit vs. recieved reports.   The other fellow may have a lousy antenna, SWR-wise, which allows him to recieve perfectly well, but makes him lose 90% of his output power.   Thus he can here you great, but you can barely recieve him.  And that isn't even considering his PA power setting, mic gain, compression, and ALC.

Sounds like you have a good setup, just be sure to use a high quality antenna wax.   Smiley

73, bill
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K0RFD
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Posts: 1368




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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2006, 05:45:58 PM »

I don't think anybody in this thread has asked you yet, but how much power are you running?  Be honest now.
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WD8PTB
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Posts: 670




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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2006, 05:51:39 PM »

The ARRL handbook ( at least the old ones ) will explain what the "s" numbers are supposed to mean. For CW it is RST ( readability,signal strength, and tone quality) For SSB it is RS. ( readability and signal strength) You could give someone a 49, This would mean he is very strong but you are only able to understand 80% of what he is saying. Don WD8PTB
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W9OY
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2006, 08:35:38 PM »

One way coax?
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GW4IMC
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Posts: 10




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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2006, 02:09:00 AM »

Thanks for the many comments and ideas.
I am still puzzled. Maybe I will have to put it
down, like most things, to old age..... going
deaf.
By the way I run normally 80watts out on CW
Anyway  Thanks again
73
A puzzled GW4IMC
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KT8K
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Posts: 1490




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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2006, 07:54:55 AM »

I would suspect those rigs are pretty good, but I have experienced this with certain rigs in the past, which never received to what I would call a "normal" sensitivity without having the receive preamp on.  

With my Orion it's just the opposite: I have to keep the RF gain dialed down to 80 (of a 100) and, on 40m and down, frequently kick in some attenuation to equalize things, otherwise I'd be giving everybody better signal reports than they give me, just about all of the time.

Good rx & 73 de kt8k - Tim
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KB4QAA
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Posts: 2488




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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2006, 10:13:34 AM »

<The ARRL handbook ( at least the old ones ) will explain what the "s" numbers are supposed to mean. For CW it is RST ( readability,signal strength, and tone quality) For SSB it is RS. ( readability and signal strength) You could give someone a 49, This would mean he is very strong but you are only able to understand 80% of what he is saying. Don WD8PTB  
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don, you are correct about RST being Readability (1-5 scale), Strength & Tone (1-9).  However, this is not the same as "S units" on the meter face.  

Here is a description that saves me from digging thru years of QST's:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_meter  

The article points out that the S meter readings are not precise, given that manufacturers are not required to demonstrate calibrated measurments, the signal level is typically measured after AGC and other processors.

Good discussion and these points are worth passing on.

73, bill
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AA4PB
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Posts: 13032




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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2006, 12:41:43 PM »

S meters vary quite a bit from one receiver to the next but I wouldn't expect it to consistantly be 3-4 units difference, especially when you have tried different receivers. Perhaps the other stations have their preamps turned on and you have yours turned off.

What I would do is to work someone who has the same radio you do and check to make sure he is using the same settings you are (RF gain, agc, preamp, bandwidth, and power output). Probably you'll find the readings to be pretty close in that case. I wouldn't expect your antenna to work much differently on Tx than it does on Rx in terms of actual signal strength (signal to noise is a different matter).
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N6AJR
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Posts: 9927




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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2006, 12:35:43 PM »

just start contesting, there every one is 59 or 599 Smiley
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