Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: APRS For The Family?  (Read 2813 times)
KE5HJO
Member

Posts: 207




Ignore
« on: August 26, 2009, 05:37:10 AM »

I will soon have several cars in my family.  The wife's, kids', mine...etc.  I would like to put a simple APRS system in each car but was wondering if that is legal or not.  Do they have to be Hams in order to have APRS in the cars they drive?

Tks!
Logged
KG4RUL
Member

Posts: 2752


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 10:09:05 AM »

The rules say there must be a control operator for an Amateur Station.  They further amplify this statement by making provisions for remote control.  

On the other hand, automated stations such as repeaters are allowed and do not require a control operator. BUT, they also require a means to shut it down promptly if something goes wrong.

SO, if you can consider the APRS station as being the same as a repeater and you can remotely shut it down, then it might be legal without a control operator.

On the other hand, if it does not qualify as an automated station, then you would need a licensed operator there as control operator.

That brings up an interesting conundrum.  If you are a licensed operator in control of the APRS station, how do you identify with your call sign as required once each hour?

Now to stand back and let the internet 'lawyers' have at it.
Logged
WW5AA
Member

Posts: 2086




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 04:50:56 AM »

Each beacon or status packet is a complete ID and most mobiles are set to beacon every five minutes or so. A simple timer will turn off the radio after a set period of time after turning the ignition off and some software can be set to beacon only if the vehicle is moving. My mobile has message capability and it would not be legal for a non-ham to send RF messages. It is always required for the control operator to shut the station down in the event of an RF problem. If this can be done by calling someone on the phone or other means it would comply. It does not matter who is sitting in proximity to a remote station. A controlled check of the APRS station is good practice before putting it into service.

73 de Lindy
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 13032




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2009, 06:11:31 AM »

Every transmitter requires a control operator. The question is whether the control operator needs to be physically present at the transmitter site. With automatic stations, beacons, repeaters, etc. the control operator must be able to shut down the station remotely. Ultimatly the control operator is legally responsible for the operation of the transmitter.

If a non-licensed person is sending text messages then it falls under a third party traffic situation and additional rules apply.

APRS uses packet radio and the transmitting station's call sign is imbedded inside every packet so the identification requirements have been met.
Logged
KG6HXO
Member

Posts: 25




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2009, 08:35:38 PM »

Arm chair lawyers......Man!.....You can track dogs, balloons, and wombats, and as long as they are not in "control" of the station, its perfectly legal ( although covertly tracking them is illegal in many States) and assuming that you are properly licensed to do so. The matter is often brought up, but has been thoroughly addressed. The former director of enforcement for the FCC told the "APRS is illegal, immoral, and fattening" crowd to take a chill pill, and use APRS the way we have been: For fun, to support public activities, do science, experiment with radio, and find our lost cars, dogs and wives.

Allen
VHS
AF60F
Logged
WE0Z
Member

Posts: 42




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2009, 04:09:01 AM »

Under FCC rule regarding automatic message forwarding you do not have a control operator present. However I think your purpose is not in the spirit of ham radio and how we use APRS and would not recommend it's use as you seem to want to monitor your family and not use it to further the investigation of amatuer radio but back to the original question you do not have to have a contro operator that is how unattended message forwarding systems operate. Also note I am an ARRL Official Observer and are well versed in this area. I can quote the exact rule if needed but ne can find it easily in Part 97.
Logged
K4RAF
Member

Posts: 19


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2009, 03:59:24 AM »

OK legal wizards, while you claim you "must be in control", how then does one remain in said "control" of a high altitude balloon launch (like the one in the news here on eHam)?

My take, do it responsibly & worry about the stones & arrows later IF questioned. That is the way it has become in this once leading edge hobby. There are "doers" & there are armchair circuit judges who will argue about why you can't do something...
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 13032




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2009, 05:15:29 AM »

WE0Z: Please quote the exact rule. As I read the automtic message forwarding rules, on 2M the automatic station must be responding to a request from a station where the control operator is present, either locally or at a remote control point. That doesn't apply to APRS since there is no interrogating station. It looks like APRS would qualify as a beacon except that the APRS frequencies are outside of the specified beacon frequencies (144.275 to 144.300 on 2M).

It appears to me that the proposed APRS operation is in a pretty gray area.
Logged
WE0Z
Member

Posts: 42




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2009, 04:19:54 AM »

Read Part 97.221 Under "Automatic Digital Stations"
Bob
Logged
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 13032




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2009, 05:32:22 AM »

Yup, you are right Bob - thanks. Automatic control is permitted on 6M and above, but not on HF. There still must be a control operator even if he is not present and actively controlling the station. The control operator is responsible for shutting down the station if requested by the FCC so it presumes that you have some means of accomplishing that. It could, I suppose, be as simple as making a phone call to the family member driving and asking him to flip a switch. There is nothing that states how quickly you must affect the shut down.

97.109(e) and 97.115(b) prohibit third party traffic from being originated by a station unless the control operator is present so it is not permitted to let an unlicensed family member enter a text message when the control operator is not present.
Logged
WE0Z
Member

Posts: 42




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2009, 04:28:43 PM »

Well I am glad I could give correct information. As a side note I have APRS in 2 vehicles for no less than 5 years and have never had a malfunction that caused interference yet. I run D700 and 710 exclusivly and APRS+SA. I like the mapping on the +SA If you need a copy of Delorme Street Atlas 9.0 sned me an email and I will get it to you if you choose to run APRS+SA.
bbailey21@att.net
Bob
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!