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Author Topic: Is CW possible on a vhf-uhf dual bander?  (Read 785 times)
BECOOL
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Posts: 33




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« on: March 12, 2008, 11:25:29 PM »

Can you send Morse code using a uhf-vhf mobile rig or do you need to have an all band hf tranceiver? I have an Icom ic 208h, is it any good for CW? Thanks in advance and forgive my lack of knowledge about the subject.
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WA3SKN
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2008, 02:56:14 AM »

Not really!
With an oscillator you could send an F2 transmission, but for all practicality the answer is no.

-Mike.
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N1QOQ
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Posts: 188




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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2008, 05:05:20 AM »

You use the touch tone keys. Although it hard to do and your in fm. 73 Paul
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KI4ENS
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Posts: 81




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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2008, 07:39:39 AM »

Well,  I think you could send CW.  If you don't feed the radio any audio,  it won't have anything to modulate.  Hence you can send just a carrier (should look fairly close to A1A.  IE,  disconnect the mic and key the transceiver.

Now how would you receive the signal?  that's the biggie.  My VX-7R has an LED which could be programed to come on on carrier detect.  Not easy.

Anyway,  it would be easier to doe MCW instead (F2) as said above.  That's modulated CW.  Its allowed with limitations in the VHF and UHF bands.  There are several way ways to achieve this.  MCM even makes a keyer.  I think one of K1EL's keyers can be modded for this too.

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KM5Z
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2008, 07:40:44 AM »

You can send MODULATED-CW (MCW) - this would be a CW sidetone, applied as modulated audio over a mode with a carrier (AM, FM, etc).

You'll need a keyer that generates a side tone, and some connection to your 'dual bander'. ...and permission to use CW over your repeater (!) or maybe you could meet up with someone else over simplex.

We used this method over our repeater here in town to run on air CW classes prior to the CW testing requirement was dropped. It works quite well for practice too, but again, you'd want to coordinate with a repeater owner to see if it's ok.

See: "CW with your HT"
www.arrl.org/members-only/tis/info/pdf/9707053.pdf

or... I found it elsewhere w/o an ARRL login:
http://www.af2cw.com/cw/CW%20With%20Your%20HT.pdf

Some rigs will also do MCW - my FT-897D will do CW (sidetone audio) on FM...

73.
Mike Yancey
KM5Z
Dallas, Texas
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BECOOL
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Posts: 33




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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2008, 09:05:53 AM »

Sorry still confused, can not access that document (not an arrl member yet) 73's
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M0JHA
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2008, 09:23:21 AM »

hello,
      theres people here in the uk that use 2m fm for practicing cw using simple buzzer type keys and holding down ptt whilst keying the buzzer..

doesnt sound great but its one way of getting together for a practice..

billy
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BECOOL
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Posts: 33




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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2008, 09:55:08 AM »

Found the article via the other link, looks a little bit cumbersome to me (I consider myself a minimalist} Could you think of anything else? Maybe some "obscure" setting on the 208h? I got an email from the guy at CW Touch paddle/keyer and he says his paddles will do it. Any thoughs about that? Thanks again.
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AA4PB
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Posts: 13032




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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 01:36:15 PM »

The radio does not support CW - its FM only. Trying to key it with the PTT is hard on the radio and will likely generate a very lousy CW signal. In addition, there is no BFO in the receiver to generate a tone for a received CW signal.

The ONLY way to do it for practice is to generate an audio tone from something similar to a code practice oscillator and feed that into the microphone circuit. The other station will need to do the same thing because you cannot copy a true CW signal with an FM receiver.
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N9DG
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Posts: 318




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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 02:04:29 PM »

Yes it can be done after fashion, but it is surely not something that you want to plan on using routinely.

There are countless stories about VHF contesters "making the Q" on one of the VHF bands when one of the stations only has FM and the other only CW/SSB (not uncommon on 222 MHz). The FM only op simply keys the radio without speaking using the PTT. The CW only op sends CW normally.

On the CW/SSB only side it sounds like a less than pure tone CW signal. On the FM only side the CW signal makes a "swishing" like sound that "modulates" the noise (usually done with open squelch).

In many ways hearing CW on an FM radio is similar to the sound of an aurora signal on CW. Needless to say you won't make any true "weak signal" contacts this way, but it can work..
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BECOOL
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Posts: 33




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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2008, 02:14:29 PM »

Ok AA4PB, I got it, thanks for your straight forward and pragmatic explanation. I miss CW, I learned it when I was only 16, graduated from an Academy in the mid sixties and have not touch a key since then. There is no way I'm gonna invest in an hf plus the antenna consideration might also be an obstacle, any way I'll probably get a good oscillator from mfj and a straight key and just enjoy it that way. I know, their quality control is questionable but I think they have a solid return policy, My consolation is that CW traffic is diminishing at least at the present time, I'm sure It'll comeback, history repeats itself thank you all for contribuiting to this forum.
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AA4PB
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Posts: 13032




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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2008, 05:34:56 PM »

The open squelch idea only works (after a fashion) when the signal is fairly weak. If the signal is full quieting then you'll get noise when his key is up and silence when his key is down - inverted CW - pretty difficult to copy. You'd be much better off to "bite the bullet" and build an oscillator.
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KI4ENS
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Posts: 81




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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 06:15:35 PM »

MCW keyers:

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-552

I have one I it works fine.  Also makes a nice practice oscillator.  Sort of pricey new.  I bought mine used.

www.k1el.com K40 keyer has a oscillator and a PTT output.
I don't have one so I can't say how well it works.

here's some more:
http://www.w8pgw.org/node/555
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2775/mcwosc1.html

have fun







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KI4ENS
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Posts: 81




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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 06:16:54 PM »



"
Some rigs will also do MCW - my FT-897D will do CW (sidetone audio) on FM..."

Mike,  where is this buried at in the menus?  Would be fun to play with

Thanks
Max
KI4ENS
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KB3GWQ
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Posts: 2




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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2008, 06:33:03 PM »

Actually, the IC-208H has AM transmission on 2 meters, unsure about 70cm, haven't tried it myself.  It would work easier for him on 2M AM right?  (Though that mode is probably dead now Hi-Hi).
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