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Author Topic: Ham testing question...fees and retesting.  (Read 1024 times)
KD4WPC
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Posts: 7




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« on: January 20, 2009, 11:24:19 PM »

I took my general test and ended up passing...I almost didnt pass because the wrong answer sheet was inadvertantly used by the ve's...Just b 4 the oops was fixed, I was told I had to pay another 15 bucks to take it again...same sitting, same night, same session...

I was told that for "x amount of yrs of giving tests its allways been that way...you pay, take the test, if you fail, then you pay to take it again".

Now my question is this...Ia this correct? If I pay the fee to take the test and fail, is it normal to have to pay a fee again to retake the test the same session/sitting?

I was also told that if I wanted to take the Extra class test the same session after passing the Gen test, it would cost me again also...well that didnt sit well with my memory of how it worked and I convinced the ve's that that was not so and somewhere I remember reading that I could take as many tests "as time allows in the same session/sitting for one fee. They finnally agreed and I took the extra with no further fees...I didnt pass, but, I didnt study for it either so I didnt expect to pass...it was that General I was after this night but figgered why not take a chance n see if I got lucky...I got 50%..

Anyways back to my question...Where can I find it written as to how many tests and fees are applicable in a situation like this. I'm sure its covered somewhere, I remember reading it sometime, I just cant remember where or find it. I do remember when I took my Tech. several guys didnt pass and was able to retake with no extra fees...back when they wuz 6 bucks...Mann, inflation is expensive...

Thank you 4 yer time...and yup,
I'm a happy kamper to be "justa General"...
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K6REA
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Posts: 283


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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2009, 02:54:17 AM »

yep..
a couple years back when i was just trying for my extra class on the fly, i was at the trw swap meet in redondo beach, .. i took it 6 times that morning, paid each time, and flunked out each time.

i studied a little, got serious about it a little over a year ago i think it was, and i got 100% on it the first time.

Kevin
K6REA
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5888




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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2009, 04:36:54 AM »

In most situations, the payment of the testing fee entitles you to one test of each of the elements.  In other words, you can go from no license to extra class for one test fee.  If you fail, you have to pay the test fee again to retest.

Now, here comes the exception.  If the VE team is to blame for the failure, IE, they use the wrong correction sheet, then it usually is their problem and you do not pay another test fee--but they may require you to take the test again.

This is always the case in the ARRL sponsored test teams.  Other VECs may do otherwise, but usually they also follow that procedure.  I suggest you document the circumstances and write to the appropriate VEC to get clarification of the issue.
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AJ4CU
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Posts: 75




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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2009, 04:38:33 AM »

Hi,

As a VE in my area we charge for the first test, if you pass you can keep going meaning if you pass tech you can go for general, if you pass you can go for Extra at no extra charge.
If you fail the first time and want to try again, yes there is another fee but if you pass you can keep going again with no extra fees.

Congrats on getting your general!

73 ES CUL DE AJ4CU.

Hari
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WV4L
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Posts: 136


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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 05:16:08 AM »

Same here as well. One fee, and as long as you take and pass an exam during that session, you are good for the next one. There have been some folks who have passed all three elements in one testing session and only had to pay the one fee.
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KD4WPC
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Posts: 7




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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2009, 06:35:05 AM »

Ok, I'm wrong then and I owe appoligies to some folks.
I thank those that replied and set me st8 in this one.

For a guy on ssi, those fees could break ya real qiuck.

I need to go eat some crow now.

Thnx guys.
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KA5N
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Posts: 4380




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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 06:39:04 AM »

What validity does a test have if you can take it over and over the same day?  In the old days when only FCC personel gave tests, you flunked, you went home and came back another day.  Hopefully after MORE study you would pass the next time.  Multiple "guess" questions are a joke anyway.
Allen
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KJ4FUU
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Posts: 162




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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2009, 07:13:10 AM »

I guess I'm lucky -- the VEs I took my test from, the Mount Vernon Area Radio Club (MVARC), didn't charge *anything*. I took Technician and General one day, and Extra a couple of months later.

-- Tom
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N2EY
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Posts: 3860




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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 07:23:18 AM »

KA5N asks: "What validity does a test have if you can take it over and over the same day?"

That's not how VE sessions work. If a person flunks a test and pays another fee to retest at the same session, they don't get another exact copy of the test they flunked. They get a completely different test. The question pools are required to be big enough that the VEs can make at least 10 different tests for each license without ever using the same question twice.

KA5N:" In the old days when only FCC personel gave tests, you flunked, you went home and came back another day."

There was never a time when only FCC personnel gave tests (remember the Conditional, and tests-by-mail?).

However, there used to be a mandatory wait of at least 30 days to retry a failed test. But that's ancient history.

KA5N: "Hopefully after MORE study you would pass the next time."

Yep. OTOH, if a person missed passing by one or two questions, is it really a good idea to make them wait for another session?  

KA5N: "Multiple "guess" questions are a joke anyway."

That's not a given; it depends on how the test is done.

The FCC amateur written exams have been entirely multiple choice since at least the mid-1960s. Part of the reason is that anyone can give a multiple-choice exam; the other is that the right answer is unambiguous and cannot be affected by bias on the part of the grader.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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WW5AA
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Posts: 2088




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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2009, 08:26:24 AM »

If you go to the ARRL Web page and search the VE site, it will tell you everything you need to know about the VE program. As with a lot of things since incentive licensing, we have VE's now that do not have a clue!

73 de Lindy
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W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2528




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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2009, 09:41:31 AM »

Congrats on passing your General.

Remember, the VEs are volunteers.  The fees pay the expenses of running the tests.

As other have pointed out, you can read the guide lines and rules that the ARRL VEs follow on line.

73
Bob

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W7ETA
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Posts: 2528




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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2009, 11:10:55 AM »

It could be that multiple guess exams are given because they are easy to score by machine.

I seem to remember that college entrance exams are multiple guess.  The results however are forced into a normal distribution.

In essence, testing is just sampling.

73
Bob
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K2YO
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Posts: 436




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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2009, 11:16:10 AM »

Just an FYI, testing at Dayton is free! The VE sessions at the hamvention are free of charge to the testee. While there is some limitation on retesting, it is well within reason. Continueing testing for higher licensing is free also.

Bernie
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N5LRZ
Member

Posts: 0




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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2009, 11:49:53 AM »

I can only speak for the ARRL VEC...

Yes and No on you question...

Yes first--IF the VEs have a second test format on hand they can give you a second and different test HOWEVER you will have to pay another 15 dollars (current fee) to take the second test for the same class of license.  They were correct in that statement and to that extent.  Each addition testing for the same class of license will cost you an additional testing fee.  IF the VEs do not have a second different test version for to administer then the option of a second testing will not apply--you cannot take the same test version twice in any give testing session.


HOWEVER the NO refers to the Extra Written.  Unless they changed the procedures, the ARRL VEC will not charge you for additional written tests if you pass the test you pass the first test.  So in theory it is possible for a person to pay only 15 bucks and take three tests all in one test sitting.  I will have to check the VE Manual for the specifics but this is the way it has always been done and still remains the same as far as I know of.

You did not state which VEC you were using.  Perhaps other VECs have different testing procedures?
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2009, 11:56:33 AM »

Re CJS

The situation you sited aka VE Team using the wrong question sheet is a rare circumstance if each of the three VEs doing the gradeing are independantly gradeing.  Group Viewing of gradeing is very definately NOT very good procedure under any circumstances.  Independant Gradeing by each of the three VEs with any one of the three having the authority to stop the gradeing on any given test on discovery of errors assures all testing results are accurate.

Makes ya wonder what gradeing procedures were in place?
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