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Author Topic: Amateur Radio – Four Years Later  (Read 5126 times)
W7ETA
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« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2009, 07:13:53 PM »

This is the Elmer section.

You want the "Speak Section", where rants and complaints are encouraged:speakoutmaster@eham.net

You can tell other hams how they oughta run their lives to make you happy.
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KG6WLS
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« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2009, 08:48:34 PM »

Guad!!! Don't cha just love the internet?

This is where all the great minds and the umpty ump attitudes come to feast.


Enjoy your computer and get on the radio once in awhile too!!!!

73
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W4HV
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« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2009, 12:03:13 PM »

A good elmer should be able to warn unsuspecting young hams about the trolls that live here and on the ham bands and under bridges. Survival takes a thick skin, a fast VOX and a dose of understanding. I commend the others here for their candid remarks about their social experience. There is more to being an ham than playing with one of bob's microphones or evaluating feed-line losses. Or checking in to the traffic net with no traffic!The gentlemanly art of ham radio and it's  get it done attitude are being lost. We must not scare off the newcomer for he is our future and like us long-timers he wants to learn and serve. They usually have the energy to do so!. Learning how to handle  people is as valuable a skill as tuning an amplifier..More so in my opinion.
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KC8VWM
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« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2009, 01:20:38 PM »

I don't see the point of this post...

Is this a letter of complaint and personal dissatisfaction after 4 years of operating amateur radio?

..Please take a number. Someone will be with you shortly.
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W4HV
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« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2009, 02:22:21 PM »

I think he means it to help us see ways we could improve ourselves. I for one strive with myself daily to do the best I can, but often I wish I had done better. We as hams have gotten a bit on the lazy side as a whole. There are some outstanding idividual efforts though!..I think the point is that we take service as something to be rewarded rather than it being its own reward.
He also points out that we have a large group of so called experts who honestly sit more as a judgement counsel instead of actually trying to develope fine character and improve the radio art. It is a hobby that has useful application. Its not just a bunch of old has beens sitting around talking about what happened back when they tried something and it did or didn't work. Where is the joy of experimentation and service? Where is the personal accomplishment that matters to society and to ourselves. Where is the personal development that changes people and motivates them to greater thing than reporting your 5 and 9 om..Can you see why that is an elmer skill also!
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N6NKN
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« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2009, 02:32:30 PM »

W4HV,

They have a name for that. It's called civil service.

Rick N6NKN
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W7ETA
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« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2009, 06:15:06 PM »

This is The ELMER section.

Stick to the "band plan", a gentlemen's agreement.

You want the S P E A K - O U T section.

That is where you can complain that other hams don't live their lives the way you think they should.

As an example, submit an article about what you went through building a classic two tube xmitter, 6AG7-6L6G in the article section.  Complain about the chirp from classic two tube xmitters in the Speak Out section.  Ask for help eliminating the chirp from classic two tube xmitters here in the ELMER section.

Complain that other hams lack the ability to design and build their own transmitters in the SPEAK OUT section. Blame society the FCC, and ARRL because hams don't live their live they way they should, designing and building transmitter in the SPEAK OUT section.

Bob
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KB3LAZ
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« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2009, 12:36:19 AM »

Im not quite sure that this fits in the elmers section. As far as my thoughts on the subject, You have them from the other site.

73
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KASSY
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« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2009, 12:48:11 PM »

Frank, I have to admit I'm not quite sure what your posting was all about, but perhaps I can help.

You wrote: "just look at the titles behind the callsign".  I guess I haven't seen "titles behind callsigns".  I see things like:

73 de name, W1ABC
emailaddress
homeclub
googlepages
cute tagline that's been used for two years

I'd just as soon ditch the taglines and listing of websites; just tell me what frequency on which to find you.

If a person's been elected to office, like Section Manager, then he ought to put it there - not for ego gratification but as a way to say "I'm your section manager, please contact me if you need the kind of services for which I was elected."

Is this what you mean by "titles behind the callsign?"  Please cite an example.

*

The "nets" are not useless.  Have you ever booted a computer?  It goes through a series of self-tests.  All systems require self-tests.  Nets meet regularly to prove that they can.  Particularly on HF, where propagation is a variable, a net meeting the same day every week gets to know the feel of propagation at this point in the solar cycle and this time of year, so if an emergency does occur, they'll all be well-prepared to handle propagation as it exists today.  Sure, there's no real message of import passed on a normal day.  But what IS important is that everybody who checks in gets confirmation that their rig and antenna is working, in an order suitable for making contact with the people they will need in an emergency.

"People… get over yourselves! "  Hate to say it Frank, but your entire posting is a lecture from on high.  Get over yourself first, and be the example to others that you want to see.  You like the technical side of the hobby.  That's great.  Ham radio has a million sides; let others enjoy their sides of the hobby, else you can expect no sympathy from those who are not technical.  Live and let live.

"By now, I’m sure I’ve pissed-off enough folks to consider many bridges burned, but honestly, why should I care? All you offer is another form to fill out, another useless worked-all-States award, or maybe I've offend a list of hams who believe what you do. What value to YOU offer? "

Ask yourself that question.  If you don't like what others are offering, then offer something yourself.  "Why should I care?" Easy.  We're all islands in the sea, connected by the water.  When one of us sinks, the others begin the process.  Humanity 101, Frank.

"Honestly, aren’t most of you limited to net check-ins and club meetings at your local restaurant?"  By no means.  At last count, some 22% of US hams are active, that is there is proof that they make QSOs on the air regularly - they're either in contest logs, or they have confirmations in eQSL, etc.  Only 5% of hams even belong to a club, and only half of those attend.  Sure, there are hams who think that attending club meetings means they're hams - but you only see them at club meetings, so they're of no real concern.

"When’s the last time you actually made a difference in someone’s life? " Daily.  Most of us.

Get this: As I read on a forum not so long ago, when you make a QSO with anybody else, you DID make a difference for that person.  Are you making QSOs for self-gratification?  Or, when you're in QSO, are you making sure the other person enjoys it?  I submit that most digital QSOs are the former - brag tapes are no fun to read.  Most CW and SSB QSOs are the latter...two people truly enjoying each other's company.  Any thinking human grows with each new person met: there's always a new perspective to be learned and that enriches you...if you allow it to do so.

"I’d rather motivate a 1000 people to activate than be somebody to love. If you don’t agree with me, that’s fine. But what are you going to do about it? "

According to the QRZ data, you're in the back yard of a very active club.  Do you participate in their Field Day?  It is the very best way to recruit new hams.  The non-ham sees the excitement and action of FD and you put them behind a mic, and they talk to someone halfway across the country, even briefly and wow, they're hooked!  Do yo do that?  Are you on the staff of your local VEC?  Do you administer exams, teach ham classes?  You didn't mention any of this.

And please, don't get all hung up on the public service aspect of ham radio.  That is NOT the core purpose. It happens to be a hot political potato right now, but that is almost exclusively in the US, and is really a very recent phenomenon.  It is not, by any mreasure, the basis and purpose.  Part 97 describes amateur radio as having  "value...as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications."

But - not EXCLUSIVELY to providing emergency communications, and that's only one of FOUR purposes.  

When someone gets on the air and begins passing nonsensical birthday messages, they are learning how to listen carefully through noise.  By doing this, they improve their ability to listen in real life, too.  When someone goes through the effort to put up an HF station, they have to learn a lot - and they are skills that are useful in other parts of life.  The sea of knowledge raises all boats.

Ham radio is about exacting something from it and contributing to it.  No more or less than playing a musical instrument, playing golf, riding a bicycle for entertainment.

Because ham radio is absolutely a team sport, people DO contribute to it simply by getting on the air, no matter what they do on the air.  I am improved when anybody gets on the air as that increases the chances I'll have a QSO - which is what I want on the air.  I am improved when a couch potato attends a ham club meeting, because I LIKE busy and bustling ham club meetings.

I think perhaps you take yourself too seriously, Frank.  You do not have patent ownership of the only knowledgeable way to "contribute".  Just because someone contributes in a way that YOU don't deem to be a contribution, does not mean they didn't contribute.  They contributed, just not to you.

Chill out, dude.  90% of the hams that I meet are outright decent folks.  I'm sure if you cast aside some of your built-in preconceived notions about what "contribution" means and good versus evil, you'll see them all, too.

- k
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K2NCC
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« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2009, 01:55:44 PM »

K-

I found myself torn between responding and just walking away, as the bruises I've received have been something I didn't want more of.  Thank you for taking the time to say something with sense and intelligence.

The whole topic turned out to be mult-faceted and full of surprise responses.  Unfortunately, most of those turned out to be insults or personally directed.

If I had to do it over again, I would never have asked and just went on with my own "thing" and changed the channel when another net or discussion about the weather came up.

This hobby, although focuses on communications, is really a loner's game.  How many people are sitting beside and particpate you when you fire up the rig?

>>>I'm not quite sure what your posting was all about....

To invoke some thought and consideration about how elitist the hobby can be.  People seem, in my experience, so concerned about titles, wallpaper, and think their presence in a "no traffic" net is what makes the hobby.  My point was to either find out what your experiences are or trigger some considerations about what you do and how you feel.

Instead, I got an ear-full about what an ass I am and if I don't like it, lump it.

Anyway, poor me.  I'll get over it and will have little impact on what I do.  Certainly shortened my list of friends and comrades though!  Amazing how the masks come off if you screw with someone's belief foundation.


>>> I guess I haven't seen "titles behind callsigns".

I have.  Particularly in ARES and similar types of groups.  I know of several in the clubs that have lines of titles behind their signature, and wear three name badges; Each with another title.  Reminds me of those that have 20 bumper stickers on the car; Really got something to say there, eh?


>>> The "nets" are not useless.  ... But what IS important is that everybody who checks in gets confirmation that their rig and antenna is working...

Really?  I get confirmation of my gear by having QSOs.  There are plenty of other ways to get the same information, nearly instantly.

It's unlikely, particularly on VHF/UHF repeaters, that your conditions will change much from day-to-day.  Do you REALLY need to have a net every day?  Some nets are even more useless than the more common; Like the "Handshakers Net" on IRLP.  Three hours mulling over the same trivia question.  No conversations going on.  No exchanges.  Without the Internet, I wouldn't even know who you are.  Just 60 people giving the same three answers (two of them wrong) a single question.  Makes no sense to me and appears useless in it's purpose.

>>> Ask yourself that question.  If you don't like what others are offering, then offer something yourself.

This isn't about me or what I have to offer or do for the hobby.  I've run down this list elsewhere at someone's request.  I don't doubt my contribution, but I do doubt the contribution of the stick-in-the-mud habits this hobby offers.  Sure, there are individuals that contribute daily and immensely.  But it's those few that really make the group.  We'd survive without ARES, but not without it's participants.  The other 90% of check-ins are just floaters.

>>> Humanity 101, Frank.

I'm not here to insult the individual.  Or the group really.  I am (or rather, was) trying to get some blood boiling and perhaps get some synapses firing.


>>> ... Do you... Do you do.... Are you... ... Do you...

Again, this isn't about me.  Although you wouldn't know if from the quick-fire insults so many have offered.  Granted, I deserve some flak for the tone of my post, but it's intent was to incite some responses to what I think are useless tasks;  Not whether or not I do anything or what kind of person I am.

My friends understood, and a few, like yourself, offered some actual insight and thought-provoking questions.  Forums are not always the best place to fully form a concept like you can in person.  Those that know me know I'm a rabble-rouser and motivator,   Whereas the majority of responders to this thread (and the same on other forums) had nothing of substance to offer.  Some were just plain mean.  You don't know me, so don't make it personal.


>>> ... they are learning how to listen carefully through noise.

Okay, on HF, I get that, thank you.  I hear most of the nets on VHF/UHF.  With dozens of repeaters within earshot, the airwaves seem to be full of them.  HF is an art for sure.  Hitting your local repeater is not.

>>> By doing this, they improve their ability to listen in real life, too.

Wow, I wish that were true.  Look above and you'll see few had anything to say about the content but still feel they had something to say.  They weren't "listening" to what I wrote, but I'm sure they can pick up a callsign on a 20M DX.

>>> The sea of knowledge raises all boats.

Sounds philosophically charming, but I have my doubts about it's accuracy.


>>>> I think perhaps you take yourself too seriously...

Perhaps.  Or maybe I was taken too seriously.  As many don't know me, or took the time to read my many "contributions" to the Internet, they have nothing but this thread to draw their conclusions.  But, again people, I'm not here to discuss me.  That's like me telling you that your drinking habits are bad for you and and you turn it around and tell me you think I should quit smoking.  Both may be correct, but it wasn't the point.  Some feel it better to re-direct than even think they have an issue to give thought.

Frank.  You do not have patent ownership of the only knowledgeable way to "contribute".  Just because someone contributes in a way that YOU don't deem to be a contribution, does not mean they didn't contribute.  They contributed, just not to you.

>>> 90% of the hams that I meet are outright decent folks.

I agree, most hams are awesome folk.  I think that percentile went down a bit by this point, but doesn't make me love you all any less.

Thanks again K for drudging me from the shadows.  I appreciate the time you've taken to respond.

Vy 73, de Frank K2NCC
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Vy 73, de Frank K2NCC
N6NKN
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« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2009, 02:11:18 PM »

Live and let live Frank. Try it.

Rick N6NKN
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K2NCC
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« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2009, 02:23:17 PM »

>>> Live and let live Frank. Try it. Rick N6NKN

Thank you for checking in Rick.

f
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Vy 73, de Frank K2NCC
KASSY
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« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2009, 02:37:05 PM »

"I'm not here to insult the individual. Or the group really. I am (or rather, was) trying to get some blood boiling and perhaps get some synapses firing. "

But you did Frank.  Your original posting was inflammatory and derided MANY groups.  You blasted out a LOT of bruises, and now you're complaining about the replies bruising you?

If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Sorry to hear your local ARES is so dysfunctional.  My local AREAS is overburdened with beaurocracy, so I can believe that.

I'm glad to see that you're thinking, but consider this - ANYBODY can complain and usually do.  The ones who stand above the rest solve problems, they don't simply point them out.  Lead the way, Frank.  Your initial posting didn't.

- k
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K2NCC
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« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2009, 03:08:37 PM »

>>> Your original posting was inflammatory and derided MANY groups.

Yes, but not once against an individual.  I many not agree with a policy, but it doesn't mean the policy-maker isn't a fine person.  Albeit polarized from my view.

>>> If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Some comments have been disappointing and mean, but I won't lose any sleep.

Tell me what's wrong with what I post, or what I believe, but you're (not YOU personally; the populace in general) not qualified to say anything about me, as I cannot about you (them.)  We don't know each other well enough.  Therein lies my disappointment with some replies.  Anyway, again, not the point.  What you think of me isn't important.

It's like saying, oh, for example, you work for Intel and I work for AMD.  I might say how much your product sucks, or how I disagree with your company's practices, then you come back with "you are so stupid" or some other nonsense.  

>>> I'm glad to see that you're thinking, but consider this - ANYBODY can complain and usually do. The ones who stand above the rest solve problems, they don't simply point them out.

Another charming, but impractical philosophy.

If someone doesn't tell you that you have a booger on your face, you might not appreciate walking around with it all day.  Doesn't mean I should also wipe it off for you.

>>> Lead the way, Frank. Your initial posting didn't.

Yeah, that's true.  If I had to do it over again, I might have been less confrontational.  I didn't lose anything from this thread, but I'm uncertain to anything I gained either.  Some have agreed, some haven't, but either way, it's still business-as-usual, eh?  I doubt any change will come from it, so it's been a lost cause before it even became one.


f


PS

For those of you that pointed out this is the wrong sub-forum (Elmers), thank you.  My bad.  Some forums have moderators and the ability to move a thread to the right subject heading.
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Vy 73, de Frank K2NCC
W7ETA
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« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2009, 03:43:53 PM »

"For those of you that pointed out this is the wrong sub-forum (Elmers), thank you. My bad."
"..it's still business-as-usual, eh?"

YUP.
Yer outta band and continue to operate outta band.
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