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Author Topic: Interesting how few . . .  (Read 7564 times)
W0IPL
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« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2006, 07:53:13 AM »

"One thing I would suggest is WELL THOUGHT OUT DRILL SCENARIOS."
- KF8ZN
- - - - - - -
Michael - What did you have in mind? Not thinking of specific scenarios but what details need to be included or what details were left out of the exercises you participated in? "Well thought out" can mean many things to many people. What details are you intending?
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KC0SHZ
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« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2006, 09:34:31 AM »

"One thing I would suggest is WELL THOUGHT OUT DRILL SCENARIOS."
- KF8ZN
- - - - - - -
Michael - What did you have in mind? Not thinking of specific scenarios but what details need to be included or what details were left out of the exercises you participated in? "Well thought out" can mean many things to many people. What details are you intending?

_____

If I can answer, the thing I want is to get a job to do that actually NEEDS to be done.  I was the medical director for the MS150 ride last summer.  I can tell you  that the Ham part was huge, but the radio part was not a big deal (needed the radio to tell me where to be, but that was about it.)  The ride was in July.  There was temps in the 100's and the riders were trying to get 100 miles in that day.  Two other hams and I had stopped at a water stop and cobbled together some shade and some fans to cool riders.  Were it not for us, easily a dozen people would have been ambulanced into the Columbus ED with heat stroke/exhaustion.  Next year, we are all going to be back, portable shade in tow.

We activated both trauma centers, and all the regional hospitals for the last mass casualty drill.  It was a scenario that should have had 1000's of casualties, and 10,000's of contaminated people.  Thanks to moronic planning, we had 5 at the trauma center.  Spending a day there didn't need to be done.  We did virtually nothing that would help us be ready for a real problem or to improve our ham radio plotting of the hospital.  

Give me a job that NEEDS to be done.  
Give me some responsibility that isn't done by 6 other people that don't coordinate with me or any of the others that are doing that task.  
Give me a realistic scenario that is actually played out in a realistic manner.  
Give me some @#%$#@ feedback and training after the fact so I can get better!





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W0IPL
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« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2006, 02:30:29 PM »

KC0SHZ - First loose the @#%$#@ attitude.

Here you are whining about the incomplete planning on the part of the MS-150 folks. Sorry dude, that's their job, not ours. If you want to do their job, go join them.

Second you DEMAND a more meaninigful assignment. Based on the attitude you display on this thread it's no wonder the served agencies don't trust you. What parts of "calm and thinking operators" don't you understand? It must be the entire phrase because you are neither calmn nor seeming to think.

If you don't believe me try walking up to the lead officer in the next major accident you come across and tell him that you don't like the way he runs it and that you are going to show him how to do it. That will cure the problem. You will propbably get out of jail in a year or two.

Look at http://www.w0ipl.net/ECom/EComBas.pdf
under "Service, it's what we do" and read a few paragraphs.
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KG4RUL
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« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2006, 04:25:26 AM »

"We did virtually nothing that would help us be ready for a real problem "

Unfortunately, Amateur Radio, as a communications asset, is often relegated to sideshow status in exercise planning.  

On one exercise in which I participated, while Amateur Radio was written into the scenario, it was NEVER EXECUTED!  Why?  Because, the media "Dog and Pony" show ran long.  

Individuals had shown up.  A communications trailer had been hauled in from two hours away.  We set up our communications and waited.  And waited.  And waited.

Dennis KG4RUL
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W0IPL
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« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2006, 06:08:54 AM »

"and waited and waited and waited"
- Dennis
- - - - - - - -

Unfortunately that is not uncommon. Having not been there I can only guess but I'll bet your group gained perceptable credibility that day. While the served agencies seldom mention it, they DO notice.

On the more positive side, how many of your operators handled the setup smoothly and without having to ask questions? If the people around here are representative then you probably had one or two people that learned quite a bit about the setup/tear-down process. On more than one occation we have had people that stood there with "deer in the headlights" expression when asked to set up one of our portable packet stations. Those are the ones that probably gained the most from your exercise.
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KC8VWM
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« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2006, 12:57:23 PM »

Hate to burst your bubble but it is the Federal Government that has put ICS/NIMS requirements on us. There are several groups RedX is the latest)
that now require back ground checks. Those are the facts of current day life. If you object to them, find something else to do with your time.
We are in the position of responding to the requirements of our served agencies. If doing that offends you, perhaps you should look elsewhere
for your gratification. Any clown that takes the attitude of "I've put in an hours time here, where's my gratification", has no place in emergency
communication.

---------------

Hate to burst your bubble Pat...

You wonder why people are losing interest in volunteering for Emcomm.

I provide you a reasonable and practical observation of the facts from the ER depatment side of the fence. I was seeking possible resolutions to the decreased numbers and decreased level of participation in emcomm recently.

I would like to point out the purpose of my contribution discussed was:

A) Not intended as a "FEMA ICS requirement" discussion.

B) Not intended as "objecting" to ICS training requirements.

However, when these potential solutions are presented to you, you somehow feel the following:

"I've put in an hours time here, where's my gratification", has no place in emergency
communication."

I would only suggest that this response openly typifies the reason why most volunteer organizations have no retained participant interest.

What I have learned over the years when fostering good ER public relations with the general public and after dealing with 100's upon 1000's of people functioning in the general community, of all walks of life,  is the mere basic fact that people have the compelling human need to feel that they are part of the organization which they belong.

Despite what you deny, anyone involved in any  organization do so for a reason and a purpose. No one is participating in your or any other served agency because they don't want to gain anything from doing so.  No one wan't to be fuctioning as a robot without a brain.

Humans engaged in any group oriented social activity require a certain level of personal reward and satisfaction for a job well done. Without these critical social feedback elements in place, then you simply cannot have a successful volunteer organization that effectively retains it's participants.

Basically. this means you cannot operate a volunteer organization with your eyes wide closed. Participant feedback and a personal reward system is a basic important factor in any organization that can only be achieved by an effective and skilled leadership that openly recognizes that fact.

73 Charles - KC8VWM
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KC8VWM
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« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2006, 01:19:57 PM »

Second you DEMAND a more meaningful assignment. Based on the attitude you display on this thread it's no wonder the served agencies don't trust you. What parts of "calm and thinking operators" don't you understand?

-----------

Again Pat, you are slamming individuals that are sincerely trying to offer you constructive suggestions.

---------------------
IE:

Give me a job that NEEDS to be done.
 
Give me some responsibility that isn't done by 6 other people that don't coordinate with me or any of the others that are doing that task.

Give me a realistic scenario that is actually played out in a realistic manner.

Give me some @#%$#@ feedback and training after the fact so I can get better!

-----------------------------

I didn't particularly feel his constructive suggestions was particularly an "attitude" display per se. It seemed more like a display of "frustration" if you should ask me.

73
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W0IPL
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« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2006, 04:47:35 PM »

KC8VWM - We obviously disagree on a veritable plethora of points.
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KC0SHZ
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Posts: 372




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« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2006, 11:35:29 AM »

Second you DEMAND a more meaningful assignment. Based on the attitude you display on this thread it's no wonder the served agencies don't trust you. What parts of "calm and thinking operators" don't you understand?

-----------

Again Pat, you are slamming individuals that are sincerely trying to offer you constructive suggestions.

---------------------
IE:

Give me a job that NEEDS to be done.

Give me some responsibility that isn't done by 6 other people that don't coordinate with me or any of the others that are doing that task.

Give me a realistic scenario that is actually played out in a realistic manner.

Give me some @#%$#@ feedback and training after the fact so I can get better!

-----------------------------

I didn't particularly feel his constructive suggestions was particularly an "attitude" display per se. It seemed more like a display of "frustration" if you should ask me.

73
 _____

Exactly!

When I started Ham radio, I did it because my then-current hobby of geocaching was getting stale, and I couldn't get my fix on helping people.  At first, setting up these caches was fun as the few other players were motivated to come up with good caches as well.  I felt that we were working to make this small aspect of the community better.  As time went on, and the game grew in popularity, it began to sink in terms of quality of player and of the caches.  I was spending my money and time to produce good caches, and then have them junked.

Ham radio appealed as I could engage in a hobby that rewards good behavior, that encourages building things, and that could help the commmunity.

I am happy to help.  I like to do it.  I want to do it.  

In my previous post, I compared the bike ride to our last disaster drill.  At the bike ride, we made a big difference, keeping a dozen or so people from having to go the ED.  At the disaster drill, we sat on our thumbs.  I gave up two days to do the bike ride.  I was working at my real job during the disaster drill and reorganized my day to help with it.  

Guess which one I want to do again?  I would be happy to give up two weekends to do something useful.  I am not giving up two hours to sit on my thumbs again.

As long as amateur radio is seen by the Emergency Preparedness pros as just some "old coots that we get roped in because it makes us look better to the grant funding agency," we will continue to lose interest in the ham community.
 
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KE7HLR
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« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2006, 02:03:50 PM »

>And NOW it appears the Red Cross will be requiring
> background checks of Volunteers, and not just any
> old background check! What the ARC is requiring is
> the same as I went through to get a Top Secret
> Military Clearance!

No, it's worse.

When I got my military security clearance, it wasn't conducted by some private company whose fine print states that you are authorizing them to sell any information they collect to third parties.

73 de Dan, KE7HLR
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KE7HLR
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« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2006, 02:06:31 PM »

> As long as amateur radio is seen by the Emergency Preparedness
> pros as just some "old coots that we get roped in because it
> makes us look better to the grant funding agency," we will
> continue to lose interest in the ham community.

That's fine. Of course, it'll be those "old coots" who come to the rescue when the "pros" drop the ball, like they did during Katrina...

73 de Dan, KE7HLR
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KC0SHZ
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« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2006, 06:50:30 AM »

 As long as amateur radio is seen by the Emergency Preparedness
> pros as just some "old coots that we get roped in because it
> makes us look better to the grant funding agency," we will
> continue to lose interest in the ham community.

That's fine. Of course, it'll be those "old coots" who come to the rescue when the "pros" drop the ball, like they did during Katrina...

73 de Dan, KE7HLR

________
That's the thing.  We won't be.  The Emcomm crowd will have faded away to the point where we don't have the people or resources to mount any kind of an effective presence.

I know 8 MD's here in town who are hams.  Including myself, how many are still involved in EMCOMM?  1.  They help with community events and such, but no longer do any emergency stuff.    

Of my friends from my tech class, one person does emcomm part time.  He is burning out just as I am.  We have been at it for 2.5 years.  

There are practical problems that are at the root of the burnout problem.  We need to see about addressing these.  All the arguing on eham won't fix them.
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KC8VWM
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« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2006, 08:59:47 AM »

Pat, It's not that I "want" to disagree with you.

It's just that I feel you should take people's suggestions more objectively.

No offense intended and please accept my apologies if that's the case.

Hopefully, we can all find solutions to improve emcom participation in the future.

My Best,

Charles - KC8VWM
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WA2CWS
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2006, 04:34:40 PM »

As a lifetime volunteer in Civil Defense, RACES, First Aid Squads, Fire Departments, Coast Guard Auxiliary and even a farm for abused animals, I offer the following on organizational psychology and the volunteer:

1. In an organization of 100 people, 5 do all the work, the other 95 show up for free things and brag about belonging to the organization. It took me several organizations to figure this out, but when I did, I resolved to only work with the workers. That meant it was okay if you joined but if you didn't do work, the food wasn't free, the recognition went to the 5, and all the mail I had to send and type saved me hundreds of dollars a year because it was mailed to workers. As an incentive to the others, anyone who worked hard was recognized in the newletters and in meetings. Recognition must be swift and relevant. I will elaborate below.

2. Volunteer organizations eventually report to either national, political, or paid organizations. The critical link is the last paid person who deals with volunteers. A link who sees volunteers as so many cattle to advance their careers can destroy an organization. This can be buffered if the head volunteer keeps them from doing it. Again, I will elaborate below.

3. Since the time of Ronald Reagan, it has been known that volunteerism is dying. The lack of time, the lack of money, the demand for more dedication and training from people who are doing something for free and the lack of appreciation escalating to the need for the Good Samaritan Law makes people wonder why they bother. The key for anyone needing volunteers is to focus on the small picture and keep from taxing people by working with a small group until they function perfectly, then work with another small group and incorporate it and so on.

4. Many times volunteers compete for work that others are paid for. It is hard to get respect from people who have spent a lifetime training and doing  something when you volunteer for short periods of time to work with or cover them. There is a sensitivity that you think their job is easy to do or that having volunteers who may not always be available or dependable will allow organizations to not hire the needed paid staff they really need all the time.

I left RACES a lifetime ago when the Deputy Police Chief of a town in New Jersey used to dress us up and parade us around town but told us only the police would do anything in a disaster.

I spend a decade working with the Coast Guard Auxiliary and it ended with my most noted volunteer moment and public humiliation. I was asked to activate an Aids to Navigation program in Boston.
 
I recruited 40 people no one wanted and made them feel that they were hand selected for the work.

I trained them personally to the Federal Standard.

I created our own team logo.

I insisted on work from all of them.

I published a monthly newsletter and distributed it to them only if they worked. There were interest stories and training in the newsletter that made them better at what they did. The back page was a list of what each person did that month so there was instant recognition for whatever they did, even if it was just a changing number next to their name.

I designed an awards system that had all of them competing against each other to do more work and win the award. I had people taking off from work and coming up with ingenious ideas on how to do volunteer work just to win a toy or icon.

I made myself accessible to every member of the team so they would get answers to their needs. I also worked side by side with each one of them.

This became a phenomena never seen before in this kind of work. People were calling me and inviting me to just show up and watch them work, then feeding me.

The work was flying in so fast that Command called me to complain that the ATON office could not process it fast enough.

Command started telling me to include others in the team and send them monthly news. I said all they had to do was work. They felt that the team was starting to operate independent of command (read burocracy). Someone wanted to get in front of us and get credit for all this work.

That year we went from last place in the country to first in the District and third in the Country behind two areas that had longer warm seasons and could do more work.

People from Washington came to see what it was about. The Commander of the First Coast Guard District praised my team at a meeting. In that same speech, he said something that I started to believe in, "When something stops being fun, stop doing it."

I reported to a Chief. A weak, immature, arrogant Chief, who wasn't happy with an 89% improvement over last year, he wanted 95%. He got up and humiliated me in front of flag officers and 200 peers in what he thought was a joke. 20 hours a week of my own time. Thousands of dollars out of my own pocket and thousands of unreimbursed miles on my car.

I quit.
The program died.
The Chief was transferred to Adak, Alaska.
I don't volunteer anymore.

So what should YOU do?

Start with one good person who likes to train people.

Give them a small group and if anyone isn't working don't go out of your way to keep them.

Shield the whole group from the paid people above.

Build a team, train, but don't keep going unless you are getting something back from them.

Acknowledge their efforts, remember what is importsant to them and give it to them.

Don't over extend yourselves. Do something small extremely well and build a reputation. Soon others will ask for your help.

Spin off the group but don't dilute it. If you take in people who don't work it is cancer to an organization.

Mark WA2CWS
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