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Author Topic: signal lights for ares member's cars  (Read 34157 times)
W6EM
Member

Posts: 1667




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« Reply #105 on: June 19, 2017, 09:02:36 PM »

This topic seems to rise occasionally.  And, I think it reveals a "need to be recognized" in many of today's amateur community.  Especially if they've entered our midst wanting to help communities, ala CERT.

Since ARRL seems to be constantly on the look out for new ways to generate revenue, perhaps it should manufacture and market large magnetic door signs, large window decals and such.  At least that way, they could benefit from what the subset is looking for.  Maybe these things already exist as I haven't been to the last few Alabama hamfests.

And, for those who really feel the need, and don't want to risk being accused of impersonating law enforcement officers, ARRL could market lighted, flashing, rooftop ARRL/ARES logos, ala Domino's and Marco's, etc. 


They already do:

http://www.arrl.org/shop/ARES-Magnetic-Sign/
Ah, well, yes it IS a magnetic sign, but somewhat obtuse.  "Radio Communications" really doesn't adequately convey the purpose for being there, IMO.  Much better if they were.... large logo "Amateur Radio Emergency Service" or simply "Event Communications," again with a large ARES logo that can actually be seen for a distance.  Hardly what I would label an ARES sign.  8 by 18 not really big enough.
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KF7CG
Member

Posts: 1192




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« Reply #106 on: June 20, 2017, 10:36:58 AM »

Magnetic signs aren't for me, even when I like their message and layout. They won't stick to the vehicle! More of this is coming too. Need to have someone invent a new easy on, easy off, reusable sign. Do it and make a million, not from Amateurs, but from every one else that needs the same.

KF7CG
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K5BBC
Member

Posts: 99




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« Reply #107 on: June 20, 2017, 11:00:50 AM »

AMATEUR OPERATORS DO NOT NEED SIGNAL LIGHTS ON THEIR VEHICLES!

Repeat this every five minutes until it sinks in.

I have amber warning lights on my truck only for use in the event I might have to park somewhere where it might be hazard.

Just curious,...just asking,....how do you get around California motor vehicle code 25250?

"25250-Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as otherwise permitted."

I didn't find any exclusions or "otherwise permitted" in the code for ARES/RACES etc..  It only addresses turn signals, and they must flash simultaneously. i.e.: no "wig-wag".
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KC4ZGP
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Posts: 1637




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« Reply #108 on: June 20, 2017, 12:51:05 PM »


Charities do not build, gather food nor cure disease.

_ _ ... ... _ _

Kraus
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W6EM
Member

Posts: 1667




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« Reply #109 on: June 20, 2017, 05:40:05 PM »

AMATEUR OPERATORS DO NOT NEED SIGNAL LIGHTS ON THEIR VEHICLES!

Repeat this every five minutes until it sinks in.

I have amber warning lights on my truck only for use in the event I might have to park somewhere where it might be hazard.

Just curious,...just asking,....how do you get around California motor vehicle code 25250?

"25250-Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as otherwise permitted."

I didn't find any exclusions or "otherwise permitted" in the code for ARES/RACES etc..  It only addresses turn signals, and they must flash simultaneously. i.e.: no "wig-wag".
Good point.  From my recollection of many years ago, other than fire and law enforcement, the CVC only permitted flashing yellow lights and those only on construction, elec/gas/telecom utility vehicles and tow trucks.  Perhaps more permissive now, but I think not...
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N6KP
Member

Posts: 2




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« Reply #110 on: June 24, 2017, 02:55:59 PM »

As a retired Red Cross disaster manager I traveled to many disasters in the US and found local Red Cross in various stages of running red, blue and yellow.  My answer was always the same when I told them to stop using the lights "Red Cross will not follow up on your insurance when you have lights and you get into an accident. "

Better you the ARES/Red Cross responder have a good working relationship with local fire and police and get through those lines.

Ted Harris, N6KP
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KD7YVV
Member

Posts: 22




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« Reply #111 on: July 08, 2017, 10:27:50 AM »

I have a questin for all and would like your opinion i'm an ARES member in southwest pa. I was recently at a ham fest and one thing a guy had at his booth was a set of blue lights for you car. Now here is my questin when ARES or RACES is activated we need to get to the scean as quick a possable to get setup should ARES and or RACES have some kind of signal light on there car and if so what color.Just an idea let me know what you think.

Tom KB3KOH

Hi Tom, first of all, kudos for asking a question, gaining knowledge and learning before doing.
I'd like to add a disclaimer, that I DO know everything, I just can't remember it all at once. Smiley

Here are my thoughts on the subject. I have been involved with my local ARES group for the
last 15 years. When I first joined, I knew nothing about ARES, emergency communications,
or anything like that. I was a newly minted Technician. Naturally, the ARRL sent me a lot of
stuff in the mail, including their literature with "If all else fails". So I joined the League, and
found out about some of the courses they offered regarding emergency communications.
ARES in Kirkland, WA has a memorandum of understanding (MOU) and is activated by the
City's Emergency Coordinator. I first got my license due to my interest in ham radio.
I got involved with emergency communications after the Nisqually earthquake.
As I said, when I first started, I didn't know squat, and like you, I did ask about lights?
I got the look from the local ARES guy that said, he thought I wouldn't be a good fit for the group.
I told him I was a new ham, showed him what the ARRL sent, and said that I genuinely wanted to learn.
Once he realized I wasn't a whacker wannabe, his exact words to me regarding lights was this:

"You are not a paid, trained, first responder. Neither am I. In my time with ARES, I've never ever had to hurry to a scene.
My first priority is my own safety, then the safety of others. Once that is assured, then I can do the job I was trained to do.
Learn all that you can, you'll never know it all."  -Bob Knight

I never forgot those words of wisdom, and am grateful for the knowledge that was passed to me by that simple statement.

The second nugget of wisdom is:

RULE #1: DO NOT and I'll repeat it, DO NOT ever self deploy.

Now, onto other concerns. ARES is it's own compartmentalized unit. Let me explain that one.
In Kirkland, if our unit is activated, we are covered under the city's insurance plan should something
happen and I'm injured, the insurance plan that covers the fire and police will cover me.
Why? Because I was requested by the city to use the training provided by the city in service to the city.

When hurricanes Katrina and Sandy happened, hams did show up uninvited to "help".
The local hams didn't know who they were, what training they had, and because of this the hams that
showed up uninvited were turned away. Now, you could say, but...but I'm ARES.
Well if you are ARES then you'd learn RULE #1, remember RULE #1, and live by RULE #1.
Now, suppose you showed up at a disaster uninvited and you got hurt? Who is going to pay for your medical
needs? The city where you got hurt? Nope. They don't know you from Adam, you're not a part of their ARES
group, you have no MOU with that city. Ah, but you're ARES right? My local group will cover me!
Nope. You weren't activated by your local city, weren't in their jurisdiction, nor given permission to deploy.

Now, this is not to say you will never be first on scene. Let's take as an example an automobile accident.
It just occurred, and police/fire/medical are not yet on scene. The first thing you should do, call 911.
In many parts of the country professional responders can be onscene in less than 5 minutes.
Now, let's say at this accident you see a small fire that started in the brush, it's about the size of a campfire.
If you have a fire extinguisher and know how to use it, COMMON SENSE will tell you it is safe enough to put
out that tiny fire to keep it from spreading. Notice I said "know how to use it" which brings me to my next
subject, training.

ARES at least in my city trains with the city and fire department so that we as those who serve, know what the
city expects of us. Let's go back to that car accident. Note, this is just an example....

Someone has a gash on their face. Your first instinct would be to apply pressure to the would to stop the bleeding right?
Now here's where things get complicated. Pressing into the wound stopped the bleeding, but severed a nerve.
When you learn first aid, the first statement and question out of your mouth is, "I am trained in basic first aid, may I treat
your injury?" ALWAYS GET PERMISSION! If you cause harm even with good intentions, it WILL and I do mean WILL bite you.

This brings me to my own personal rule #1. Always cover your arse.
A Good Samaritan law can only go so far.

Even after 13 years being involved in EMCOMM, I'm always learning something new, taking up training whenever I can.
Do I live, eat, and breathe it? Hell no. I'm grateful for every day that my ARES unit isn't activated.
My training and experience are a part of my life, but it's not my entire life.
Get as much training as you can Tom.

To answer your question about lights, please re-read Bob Knight's quote above.
Good luck, keep learning, and never forget, it's just a hobby.

--KD7YVV, Kirkland ARES
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K6CPO
Member

Posts: 405




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« Reply #112 on: July 11, 2017, 03:19:48 PM »

AMATEUR OPERATORS DO NOT NEED SIGNAL LIGHTS ON THEIR VEHICLES!

Repeat this every five minutes until it sinks in.

I have amber warning lights on my truck only for use in the event I might have to park somewhere where it might be hazard.

Just curious,...just asking,....how do you get around California motor vehicle code 25250?

"25250-Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as otherwise permitted."

I didn't find any exclusions or "otherwise permitted" in the code for ARES/RACES etc..  It only addresses turn signals, and they must flash simultaneously. i.e.: no "wig-wag".
Good point.  From my recollection of many years ago, other than fire and law enforcement, the CVC only permitted flashing yellow lights and those only on construction, elec/gas/telecom utility vehicles and tow trucks.  Perhaps more permissive now, but I think not...

I think the "disaster service worker" exemption might apply if members are credentialed by their local governmental entity.  In reality, most law enforcement personnel don't really care unless the individual is doing something that might endanger himself or others or looks too much like a law enforcement vehicle. 
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N9AOP
Member

Posts: 680




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« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2017, 09:07:53 AM »

Our local and county government entities say that we are not first responders  so ---no red, blue or green.   And as I said before, put a blue light on top of your car in Chicago and see what happens and how soon.
art
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KB2FCV
Member

Posts: 2570


WWW

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« Reply #114 on: July 25, 2017, 12:40:06 PM »

People who are not first responders have no need to have any sort of emergency lighting to travel to a scene in a hurry.

As a first responder (firefighter for 25+ years) there are calls you roll lights and sirens to.. and calls you don't. That goes for personal cars and fire apparatus. We also don't speed to get there - you want to get there in one piece!
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N0YXB
Member

Posts: 1144




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« Reply #115 on: July 25, 2017, 02:51:36 PM »

People who are not first responders have no need to have any sort of emergency lighting to travel to a scene in a hurry.

As a first responder (firefighter for 25+ years) there are calls you roll lights and sirens to.. and calls you don't. That goes for personal cars and fire apparatus. We also don't speed to get there - you want to get there in one piece!

Thank you!
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