Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Should I be in ECom?  (Read 21700 times)
K2GW
Member

Posts: 535


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2007, 08:26:49 PM »

Getting back to the original point of this thread, W0IPL's webpage does not even contain the word "professional" in it ;-)

I think we tend to use "professional" to avoid negative connotations of the word Amateur, but in this case, as Part 97 says, Amateur simply means non-commercial, not unskilled.  Most hams are far more technically skilled in radio use than most "professionals" who happen to talk on radios everyday.  

A tragic example of this are the films of the NYFD battalion chiefs all standing shoulder to shoulder in the lobby of the World Trade Center unsuccessfully trying to simultaneously recall their fire companies on HT's.  Do the terms "front end overload" and "receiver desensing" come to mind?  The battalion chiefs certainly know a lot more about fighting fires than I do, but I think most hams (even ones without EmComm training) would recognise that communications might have been better if they just stepped a few yards apart.

Thus I think we should try to the use the term "proficent" when describing our EmComm capabailities.  As a way of comparing things, Olympic class atheletes are for the most part "Amateur" but they certainly are "proficent" at their craft.  ;-)

73

Gary, K2GW

Logged
N0EQ
Member

Posts: 74


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2011, 05:04:23 PM »

Reading through the emcom posts for the comedic value,
I came across this old statement -


K1CJS wrote:
" ...The majority of us also know how to connect and set up equipment.  Most of the officers, firemen and medical personnel don't know a radio RF connector from a vehicle power socket...."

What a disgusting stance to take. If you honestly think that your club of donut eating, vest wearing HT whackers are going to save the world because your cops, paramedics and firefighters "don't know a radio RF connector from a vehicle power socker" then you clearly demonstrate why no public service agencies take groups like you seriously.


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com


Logged
KC0SHZ
Member

Posts: 372




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2011, 01:30:29 PM »

Reading through the emcom posts for the comedic value,
I came across this old statement -


K1CJS wrote:
" ...The majority of us also know how to connect and set up equipment.  Most of the officers, firemen and medical personnel don't know a radio RF connector from a vehicle power socket...."

What a disgusting stance to take. If you honestly think that your club of donut eating, vest wearing HT whackers are going to save the world because your cops, paramedics and firefighters "don't know a radio RF connector from a vehicle power socker" then you clearly demonstrate why no public service agencies take groups like you seriously.



You know, you are probably correct, but as they never seem to tell us to go home and not to come back, and they never seem to  tire of getting us to do some fairly dangerous work for them (flood gauge monitoring, storm spotting) or boring unpaid work (parade and bike ride safety), I wonder if you are actually wrong.

I just wish they would decide to keep us or dump us. 

If they want us, then they should train with us enough so that their field level people know what we do instead of being a site or incident commander who (and I have experienced this first hand) couldn't tell a Ham radio operator from a Ham sandwich, much less know how to use us to his best advantage.  Enough so that we can tell what we can and can't do for them and we can weed out the Hams that aren't any good at it.

If they don't want us, afford us the courtesy of simply telling us that we aren't needed anymore and I will stop replenishing my go bag.  And have the testicular fortitude to stand by their decision in public.
Logged
LA9XSA
Member

Posts: 376




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2011, 04:02:04 PM »

What a disgusting stance to take.
So you are personally offended because many people don't know about the internals of the equipment that they use? Are you similarly offended because most cops and soldiers don't know how to make a semi-automatic rifle from scratch? Sorry, but unless they're required to know that stuff, or have it as a hobby, they won't know. They are professionals with enough on their minds - medical protocol, conflict resolution, security etc. without having to solder their own radios or make their own guns and fire engines.
First responder radios are channelized, more and more frequently trunked, and the user doesn't need to bother with modulation and frequency. That's fine and dandy until they stop working.
If they're lucky they have a resident trained expert, but often they'll have to call the supplier service line; those usually respond quickly, but in the interim they need to communicate.

If you honestly think that your club of donut eating, vest wearing HT whackers are going to save the world because your cops, paramedics and firefighters
Hams, cops, paramedics and firefighters all happily eat donuts together, in reflective vests. It boils your blood, doesn't it? We like more healthy baked items over here though.

"don't know a radio RF connector from a vehicle power socker" then you clearly demonstrate why no public service agencies take groups like you seriously.
I suspect the group is taken seriously roughly in proportion to how well trained and integrated they are. And donut eating capacity of course.
Logged
W3LK
Member

Posts: 5639




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2011, 05:54:55 PM »

Check out N0EQ's QRZ listing.

A man who's vehicles look like Army surplus is casting aspersions at ECOM folks?Huh What a hypocrite!
Logged

A smoking section in a restaurant makes as much sense as a peeing section in a swimming pool.
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 6045




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2011, 05:30:15 AM »

N0EQ, The only thing I have to say about your post is this.  When you have policemen and or firemen standing over you and asking questions about how the station you're setting up goes together, you'll revise your opinion.  Although I did go a little far in my statement, you would be surprised how many of those people wouldn't begin to know where to look if they had something go wrong with their equipment.

On another point that I missed earlier:

I would consider removing or revising the following statement:

"The negative side is someone in ECom, just to "be where the action is". These people tend to be wanna-be types. That is to say they wanna-be a policeman, or wanna-be a fireman but do not have what it takes to do either of those jobs. People in that group can do the largest favor to Amateur Radio by not participating in ECom."

I would revise it by including the short statement in italics as follows and changing the 'someone' to 'some':

"The negative side is some in ECom, who are not now public safety personnel, join just to "be where the action is".

I would leave that rest of that statement as you have it.  That way, the people who are already policemen, firemen, etc. know they are wanted, yet tells wannabees that they're not.  All too often the volunteers who want to participate ARE nothing but wannabees.  Either they're weeded out from the start, or you're going to have serious problems later on.

Also, I would stress and keep on stressing the volunteer aspect AND the fact that quite a lot of time must be spent on non emergency drills and exercises.  That way, people who do not show up for the drills and exercises can't complain about not being used when they do show up--you've spelled it out that they have to participate in the drills and exercises.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 05:42:08 AM by K1CJS » Logged
K1TCJ
Member

Posts: 10




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2011, 11:03:49 AM »


KC8VWM writes:

> I would consider removing or revising the following
> statement:  "The negative side is someone in ECom,
> just to "be where the action is...."

I agree, but for different reasons.  W0IPL describes the purpose of this document in part as follows:

> to tell new people that are interested in Emergency
> Communication... the "why should I" (or shouldn't
> I - as the case may be")

I see this as a recruiting document, and as such it should certainly include the "why should I" content, but IMHO the "why shouldn't I" content is out of place.  Sure, the cop or firefighter wanna-be is a problem, and you probably don't want to recruit him.  But there are several other types you probably don't want to recruit either, such as the inexperienced know-it-all who continually kvetches about accepted procedure because he knows a better way, or the guy who only bathes once a week.

I wouldn't call out the wanna-be in a recruiting document any more than I'd call out the know-it-all or the stinky guy.  Rather, I'd make every effort to write the "why should I" material in such a way that these individuals realize immediately that emcomm's not for them, and I'd eliminate any explicit "why shouldn't I" material altogether -- it might be viewed by some as "we don't want you if" material, and the implied arrogance might alienate some of the folks you *do* want to recruit.




« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 11:09:25 AM by K1TCJ » Logged
K7RBW
Member

Posts: 398




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2011, 08:55:07 AM »

I've visited a couple of EmComm and EmComm-type orgs but never stuck around for long. It's not that I don't want to participate, but from my limited experience and from reading several years of comments, the personalities of the orgs tend to cluster around either too-casual-to-do-anything-constructive, various versions of a "good-ole boys" club (i.e. they are government-funded social activities with radios), or in the worst case, borderline-paramillitary.

A few actually take their job seriously and have organized training plans and experience/proficiency requirements, unfortunately I don't live near any of those.

I agree witih TCJ in that you don't need to make a big deal about who/what you DON'T want. Just be crystal clear who/what you DO want.

You DO want regular attendence to the meetings and training activities AND you owe the members organized meetings and training activities with a clear purpose (e.g. to practice what you learned in the organized meetings).

You DO want team players who know when to speak-up and when to listen and do what's asked of them (which comes with training and organization).

You DO want people who act professionally--and if you don't understand what that means, either learn it from someone (mentor/elmer) or find another place to spend your weekends.

But, this requires a lot of the organization's leadership, so it's not always easy.

The org needs a leadership that is involved and interested. Managing vounteers as an additional duty for someone who is overworked will make that difficult.

The org needs some budget to make things happen. Not as much as maintaining a full-time professional staff, but more than $0.00. The volunteers are contributing a lot, the org should at least appear like they have some skin in the game.

The agency leadership needs to show an interest (e.g. some face time from the chief of police, fire, etc.) in the volunteers' activities and progress.

and so on.
Logged
N0SYA
Member

Posts: 369




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2011, 04:40:09 PM »

Hi
If tshtf and you're still alive and your gear made it as well as a source of power, you will be doing ecomms wether you like it or not. That is, untill the zombies arrive.
Logged

If you have a clumsy child, you make them wear a helmet. If you have death prone children, you keep a few clones of them in your lab.
AJ4WC
Member

Posts: 47




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2011, 11:20:47 AM »

The majority of us also know how to connect and set up equipment.  Most of the officers, firemen and medical personnel don't know a radio RF connector from a vehicle power socket.  

Its not reasoned out when some people say we're not professional 'anything'--in an emergency, some of us are the closest thing to an all-around radio professional there is.

You're doing everyone a dis-service by comparing two unrelated activities.  Officers and Firemen were not hired to work on radios or know an RF connector from a power connector.  Using that logic, a Nurse would not qualified unless s/he can also fix the equipment.  Do you want to be a patient in a hospital where the Nurses all were distracted from their duties while attempting to fix the equipment.  I know I don't...

So while your skills in radio may appear to be an asset when comparing what you know against someone that knows even less - less about that particular subject.  In reality your skills probably pale in comparison to the tech(s) actually hired specifically to work on the radio equipment.    
 

« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 11:23:45 AM by AJ4WC » Logged
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 6045




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2011, 05:51:53 PM »

You're doing everyone a dis-service by comparing two unrelated activities.  Officers and Firemen were not hired to work on radios or know an RF connector from a power connector.  Using that logic, a Nurse would not qualified unless s/he can also fix the equipment.  Do you want to be a patient in a hospital where the Nurses all were distracted from their duties while attempting to fix the equipment.  I know I don't...

So while your skills in radio may appear to be an asset when comparing what you know against someone that knows even less - less about that particular subject.  In reality your skills probably pale in comparison to the tech(s) actually hired specifically to work on the radio equipment.

Just how am I comparing two unrelated activities?  By comparing the emergency services personnel to hams?  Please stop reading more into the comments than are there. and stop putting your own spin on things.  In places where ARES personnel and trained and are welcome, you'll find them running shelters, delivering supplies, and even providing assistance to the running of staging areas--BESIDES providing comms for NON-EMERGENCY traffic also.  That relates those activities--as long as the hams keep to what they're supposed to be doing.  Many times the emergency personnel will come and ask for help in setting up equipment.  They KNOW that the hams there are a resource that can be relied on.
Logged
AJ4WC
Member

Posts: 47




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2011, 03:26:41 PM »

So the truth is your helping out around the shelter.  Cool... good for you!  
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 03:31:32 PM by AJ4WC » Logged
KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2011, 07:19:22 PM »

You need to specifically define the mission and the skills required before you start recruiting volunteers!  Wink
Logged
N0EQ
Member

Posts: 74


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2011, 06:43:22 PM »

What a disgusting stance to take.

So you are personally offended because many people don't know about the internals of the equipment that they use? Are you similarly offended because most cops and soldiers don't know how to make a semi-automatic rifle from scratch?...


Most hams don't know how to build a radio from scratch.
Actually, most of the emcomms hams that I've ever met
(perhaps 200-300) don't know how to build a dipole.
Knowing how to push that PTT on their HT to hit the
repeater doesn't exactly make them communications experts.

The disgusting stance is that the OP would suggest that
most public service professionals wouldn't know an RF
connector from a battery connector.

As if it was ever needed.


Sgt Craig Lemke.
Sheriff's 911 PSAP commander
Logged
LA9XSA
Member

Posts: 376




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2011, 02:03:12 AM »

Since you work in dispatch, and are a ham, you obviously know much more about how the radios work than the average nurse or fire fighter who only know how to push the PTT. And they're not supposed to know more either - they need to focus on their jobs.

Quote
Knowing how to push that PTT on their HT to hit the repeater doesn't exactly make them communications experts.
There's probably a difference in license class here, because a technician class ham is only supposed to know how to operate legally on the short-range radios, while the extra class hams are supposed to have in-depth knowledge of how a radio works. Then again, maybe some people only cram for the test and then forget about it?

The whole point is that the hams can do the radio stuff that the first responders don't know or have time for, so the first responders can focus on their jobs.

Returning to the rifle example, I don't think most rifle association members can make a rifle either, but at least they have an active interest in shooting, and some of them know how to repair or modify one.

Quote
As if it was ever needed.
Scenario: The garage of the police station floods. Radios have to be temporarily installed in other vehicles so officers can respond to calls.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 02:25:40 AM by LA9XSA » Logged
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!