Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 [4] 5 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Should I be in ECom?  (Read 20570 times)
AI8P
Member

Posts: 118




Ignore
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2011, 09:50:05 AM »

 I imagine there are some people in Tuscaloosa who were "done with EmComm"  who got involved again recently and wished they had stayed current.

 I imagine there are some people in Joplin who were "done with EmComm"  who got involved again recently and wished they had stayed current.

 I imagine there are some people in Maryland who were "done with EmComm"  who got involved again recently and wished they had stayed current.

You are "done with EmComm" until a disaster strikes you and yours.    A little preparation beforehand will go a long way at that time.

Your mileage may vary,

Dennis AI8P
Logged
KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




Ignore
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2011, 06:03:08 PM »

Well said! An ounce of preparation is worth a pound of rescue!  Grin
Logged
K7RBW
Member

Posts: 384




Ignore
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2011, 09:36:11 PM »

You are "done with EmComm" until a disaster strikes you and yours.    A little preparation beforehand will go a long way at that time.

I don't see what those two sentences have to do with each other.

  • People can be prepared and not be Hams.
  • People can be prepared and have nothing to do with "EmComm" (or any comm for that matter). In fact, you could argue that the more prepared they are, the less they need to worry about comms.
  • People can be Hams and not prepared.
  • People can be in EmComm and not prepared (just follow this thread back a ways to see examples of that).

AI8P's post seems to imply that unless you're involved with EmComm, you'll be sorry should disaster hit. I don't see the relationship. If a disaster hits, I'll be sorry regardless. Hopefully not for myself, but certainly for all those who meet with tragedy.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 09:38:41 PM by K7RBW » Logged
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5811




Ignore
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2011, 06:58:57 AM »

I agree with you, Bob.  Dennis seems to think that if you're not current in emcomm, you won't be able to do much with ham radio should disaster strike.  Untrue.  If all a ham operator wants to do is to report incidents or observations on current conditions, any net will take that report if the ham calls in and waits to be acknowledged.  You don't have to be current in the emcomm area to tell people what's happening around you--you just have to be and keep current if you want to participate in the emcomm group itself.

That, I think, is where the ARRL is missing the boat.  They seem to insist that, to participate in ANY form, you have to involve yourselves and keep current in all phases of emcomms.  And I think that is why the emcomms debacle raises so much ire among ham operators in itself.
Logged
KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




Ignore
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2011, 08:40:12 AM »

Organized preparation in advance of the disaster answers the question, what do we do next? If you lived in a frequent hurricane disaster zone, you would know that!  Wink
Logged
K7RBW
Member

Posts: 384




Ignore
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2011, 09:16:17 AM »

If all a ham operator wants to do is to report incidents or observations on current conditions, any net will take that report if the ham calls in and waits to be acknowledged.

While perhaps not as close to the spotlight as some might like, THIS is the unique benefit that a dispersed group of people who can communicate over some distance can provide. It baffles me as to why this seems to go unnoticed by seemingly everyone.

When people mention "ham radio" and EmComm, the first image that seems to come to mind is a bunch of people with their reflective vests and handhelds all hovering around the EOC (or worse) the disaster site. This is what the ARRL seems to promote in their photos and also the image that makes the professionals cringe.

In a disaster or emergency, one of the biggest needs is to know what's damaged, who's injured, and what's available so that the scarce resources can be allocated and assigned most effectively. Yet, in an emergency, it seems like all the Ham volunteers must report to the center. This may be challenging in a disaster (due to impassable roads or other obstacles). Having everyone report in physically might make sense from a command and control perspective (so you know who's available, volunteer or otherwise and be able to deploy them where needed) and there'll always be a need for these "1st tier" volunteers.

But, if there are already Hams sprinkled around the community, the "2nd tier" of volunteers (which doesn't mean "2nd class," by the way) could just stay put and radio in their status. It would be especially valuable to know that everyone in a neighborhood is fine and they don't need immediate assistance, or someone is hurt and needs immediate assistance. At a minimum, these volunteers would need a working radio and knowledge of the net frequencies. Even better, they would have some first aid training.

I've seen information about community programs like this, CERT, for example, and another paper on using FRS ch. 1 as a neighborhood emergency net frequency. But, what I've not seen is these "non Ham" solutions promoted in the Ham EmComm volunteer literature. To me the biggest value Ham radio operators could provide to EmComm scenarios would be to act as the neighborhood net control for the FRS net and report in over the Ham net. That is a low to no-[marginal] cost option for the Hams (they most likely have all the gear they need) and it would provide great PR for amateur radio by showing ongoing positive involvement in the community.

What amazes me is that the Ham volunteer solutions seem to rely on JUST Ham radio options. Nowadays, the "Cell phones?! We don't need no stinkin' cell phones!" attitude is just ignorant. ANY communications plan (even Ham radio comm plans) should include a diversity of communications options, of which Ham radio is but one. There's cell-phone voice, cell-phone text, multi-media messaging (photos), Simplex Ham, FRS/GMRS, Ham Packet, Internet, Simplex commercial/business, Trunked, and on and on. An effective emergency plan is NOT going to rely on any single mode and should be designed to use as many as exist while also working on what few might be in operation.

I think the Ham community loses a lot of credibility when they are asked "what about cell phones or e-mail" and say they don't need any of that. Instead they should say, we use whatever works best to get the job done. Streaming video to YouTube? If it works we'll use it! We'll make sure the message gets through. If we can't send video, we'll send photos by message. If text messages don't work, or there's no cell coverage, we have VHF/UHF simplex Ham, if that doesn't work, we have HF, etc. Saying they have a plan to use whatever works sounds much more pragmatic (and customer focused) than saying we be here if you need us after everything else craps out (e.g. the "When all else fails..." message) Who would want to count on that attitude

I realize the comments in this thread have veered towards the negative, but I'd love to hear about places that have success stories. If anyone has an integrated comm plan that includes all manner of communication media, I'd love to hear how that works or doesn't work (I could be all wet on this). Either way, I'm curious.
Logged
N0SYA
Member

Posts: 290




Ignore
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2011, 12:53:07 PM »

A song about emergency communications:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIm14Jk12nI&feature=watch_response
Logged

If you have a clumsy child, you make them wear a helmet. If you have death prone children, you keep a few clones of them in your lab.
KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




Ignore
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2011, 01:09:05 PM »

What our local ham club did was to map the location of all participating members, along with a list of their communications capabilities (bands), and provided it to Emergency Management. If there is a disaster, we report the conditions and needs of our own neighborhoods. It is an excellent program!  Grin
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 10:12:01 PM by KI4SDY » Logged
N0EQ
Member

Posts: 74


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2011, 02:43:46 PM »

Recapping/Combining some of the more humorous posts,
I hope nothing is lost in my paraphrasing -

"Mr Police Chief/Sheriff/Fire Chief, your public servants are not smart enough to
know how to plug an antenna into an antenna connector, and a power connector
into a power connector. So we've formed a local club of people who know how
to plug that stuff in. So in case it ever floods in the police garage, you can
call us and we'll come over and remove the radios from your units and install
them in your POVs (or ours). And by the way, would it be alright if we were
allowed to run code 3 to get there?"
 
Pretty funny. Pretty tragic.

Does anyone really wonder why emcomm'ers, hams in general,
are laughed at by non-hams, esp pub service officials? Those
police chiefs aren't "asking" you to train and become part of the
system, they're "tolerating" you because 1) they'd rather have you
ON the side of the good guys than the bad guys - and - 2) They'd
like to have your vote.


Disasters? I have NEVER seen one where the cellphone companies
didn't have a COW (Cellular On Wheels) on scene within hours.


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com
Logged
LA9XSA
Member

Posts: 376




Ignore
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2011, 04:37:07 PM »

Does anyone really wonder why emcomm'ers, hams in general,
are laughed at by non-hams, esp pub service officials?
http://i.imgur.com/bPP2h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CUfdL.jpg
Apropos of that, any reactions when driving around in your camo painted car and using your army green-painted radios? Is it the faux army car owners vs. the faux police car owners?

Apart from on amateur radio forums, I hear nothing but positive remarks about amateur radio helping out.
Disasters? I have NEVER seen one where the cellphone companies
didn't have a COW (Cellular On Wheels) on scene within hours.
Then what happens in the hours and days before that can be fully set up? Just make do without communications?
Logged
N0EQ
Member

Posts: 74


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2011, 06:12:14 PM »

Apropos of that, any reactions when driving around in your camo painted car and using your army green-painted radios? Is it the faux army car owners vs. the faux police car owners?

Let's see...I have a camo painted hunting van. For some twisted reason that makes it appropriate for emcomm'rs to insultingly suggest that cops, the group that they try so hard to matriculate into, are idiots.

A couple of the theories presented in this thread just continue to prove my points over and over.

Carry on, HT warriors.


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com
Logged
KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




Ignore
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2011, 10:03:32 PM »

I have known some pretty dumb Police Chiefs in my life!

One was arrested for forging a pain killer prescription by putting a "1" in front of his prescription for "10" capsules. It was his second drug related incident. Roll Eyes

Another, after being arrested in Dallas for perjury, returned to Florida and became Chief of his former department again, only to be fired for making "monkey" jokes in read off. They gave him a job at the Police Academy and he was caught naked with the Academy Secretary on her desk.  Roll Eyes

Another one was discovered to have a shotgun stolen from the department hidden behind drywall in his garage. He was the smartest. He died before they found the gun.  Roll Eyes

Many of these clowns get their jobs because the City Council is assured they and their families won't be arrested while he or she is in charge. What good do you think they would be making decisions in an emergency of any type?  Shocked
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 06:06:13 AM by KI4SDY » Logged
LA9XSA
Member

Posts: 376




Ignore
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2011, 02:42:17 AM »

Let's see...I have a camo painted hunting van.
You sure do. The camo makes sense if you stalk and shoot wildlife in it. Do you? Or is it only for camping? Still doesn't explain why you painted your radios army green though.

I wouldn't usually make an issue of it (modding and decorating your stuff is cool enough) but stones in glass houses, man. What does it look like to the public? As you said:
Does anyone really wonder why emcomm'ers, hams in general,
are laughed at by non-hams, esp pub service officials?

For some twisted reason that makes it appropriate for emcomm'rs to insultingly suggest that cops, the group that they try so hard to matriculate into, are idiots.
No you see, in a police operation hams are more like janitors, electricians or volunteer mountain climbers. You don't become a cop by being a ham or a janitor at the police station.
A cop isn't an idiot just because he hasn't been trained in how to install and tune an HF radio, install a fuse box, or knowing if a Grigri is appropriate to use on a particular belay. Modern society is based on specialization. A Nobel prize winner in a hurry could easily have make the mistake of inserting the power leads into the balanced antenna input of some radio and destroying the finals. I'm sure the result would be even more disastrous if you put an unfit ham to work climbing mountains, or let a non-trained mountain climber run around investigating crimes on flat terrain.

Disaster management involves many different specializations working together, hopefully in roles that have been well exercised in advance. It involves government agencies, volunteer organizations, utility companies, and the private sector in general. It doesn't work if each and every group throws a fit if somebody mentions the obvious fact that they have different skills and responsibilities.
A couple of the theories presented in this thread just continue to prove my points over and over.
Your stated points were that public officials only include hams to keep them out of the way and get votes, and that the only type of emergency communications ever needed are back-up cell towers. Haven't seen any proof of any of that from you. On the other hand the stories of public safety officials and volunteer organizations praising amateur radio for helping in particular cases are all over the place if you bother searching for them.

Meanwhile KI4SDY is talking to himself.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 02:44:03 AM by LA9XSA » Logged
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5811




Ignore
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2011, 05:35:46 AM »

Let's see...I have a camo painted hunting van. For some twisted reason that makes it appropriate for emcomm'rs to insultingly suggest that cops, the group that they try so hard to matriculate into, are idiots.

Seems to me that such a van would be more of a nuisance and a possible safety hazard than a help when hunting.  Suppose someone couldn't see it clearly and put a deer slug through it?  And through the driver at the same time.

A potential Darwin Award winner if I ever heard one!

And I bet that you STILL have your radio equipment in it too!
Logged
KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




Ignore
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2011, 06:21:04 AM »

Chief of Police incompetence is still running rampant today! The lady Police Chief of our nearby large city left her badge and gun in an unlocked car in her front yard overnight and they were stolen. Her officers keep getting caught beating up the public for no reason in front of cameras her department had installed all over town. Recently she announced her "retirement" after only a few years in office. A good thing for the public!  Grin

Also, for those of you that look up in awe of these people as "professionals," check out the online stories about the Windemere, FL Police Chief. There is just too much insane nonsense on his part to list here. He is currently out of jail for his corrupt antics, but will soon return to the slammer!  Wink

The main problem is that the current crop of "professionals" look upon their positions as just a job, rather than an opportunity to actually serve the public. At least volunteer hams have the right attitude, which is a good place to start!  Smiley
  
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 06:37:05 AM by KI4SDY » Logged
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 [4] 5 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!