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Author Topic: Restructuring?  (Read 11361 times)
KC2QYM
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Posts: 606




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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2016, 06:41:02 AM »

Do away with frequency and mode privilege limitations and do limit the allowed power levels for the various license classes.  That's the way almost the entire world outside the US handles their amateur radio usage. 
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N0IU
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WWW

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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2016, 08:18:20 AM »

Yeah but how do you enforce that since there is really no way to tell how much power a station is using at any given time?
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W4KYR
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Posts: 1097




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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2016, 09:37:03 AM »

This may surprise some, but the no code HF license idea actually dates back to the 1950's and it was actually implemented in one country.

The Japanese had a 10 watt "phone" amateur license class since the 1950's and it had HF privileges from the get go without a Morse Code requirement at a time when a Morse Code Requirement was required below 30 meters internationally. 

There were even 10 watt versions of popular 100 watt HF rigs that were only sold in Japan because of the Japanese 10 watt "phone" license class. You might see some 10 watt Icom HF rigs on eBay from time to time like the IC-723S which is the 10 watt version of the IC - 728 which was 100 watts. See  http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/5858


How did the Japanese get away with having a no code 10 watt "phone" class ?

http://www.w5yi.org/ama_news_article.php?id=568


" Japanese telephony class license was introduced in the late 1950's. Defying international amateur radio law, it was the first HF Amateur Radio license issued anywhere in the world that did not require any Morse Code test. By ITU law, operating HF without code proficiency was not legal until 2003.

Japan got around the International radio rules requiring Morse code proficiency by taking the position that 10 watts only allowed domestic operation which, of course, is not the case. The Japanese telephone class was later renamed as the Amateur Fourth-Class Radio Operator license. There are four license classes in Japan. While 1st and 2nd class operators must pass a government exam; 3rd and 4th class operators only need to take and pass a simple JARL (Japan Amateur Radio League) approved training seminar."


I wonder if we would have introduced the Japanese no code 10 watt phone license in the United States in the 1960's instead of insensitive licensing incentive licensing where hams ended up losing privileges. Would that have been better for amateur radio all around?

Does anyone have a comparison list of the different License Classes and Privileges of countries around the world? It would be interesting to compare the differences between them and the U.S.


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KG8LB
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Posts: 399




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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2016, 03:32:23 AM »

Just re-institute CW testing, the rest is fine as it is.  Grin
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AF5CC
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Posts: 1485




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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2016, 11:00:57 PM »

Just re-institute CW testing, the rest is fine as it is.  Grin

Couldn't agree more!
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W4KYR
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Posts: 1097




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« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2016, 04:59:39 AM »

Just re-institute CW testing, the rest is fine as it is.  Grin

25 wpm solid copy for 5 minutes



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WA2ISE
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Posts: 802




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« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2016, 11:50:29 AM »

Just re-institute CW testing,

I was going to suggest banning code, but I have no good reason for that  Cheesy
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WW7KE
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Posts: 325




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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2016, 12:22:15 PM »

How about the following proposal (Disclaimer:  I hold an Advanced ticket):

1.  Set a drop-dead date for the Novice and Advanced licenses.  That date would be 5 years after this proposal is made a rule.  Novices would have to upgrade to Tech or higher, or be dropped.  Advanced licensees would have to upgrade to Extra or be downgraded to General.

2.  To keep us Advanced folks from screaming bloody murder, reallocate General Class frequencies in the 80/75, 40, 20, and 15 meter bands (the only ones affected, other than the lower 25 kHz of those bands, which have been Extra-only for almost 50 years):

General Class HF Privileges
80:  3525 - 3650 kHz:  CW & Data (Expands this band by 50 kHz, which I think is already an NPRM).
75:  3750 - 4000 kHz:  Phone & Image (ex-Adv would lose 50 kHz, Gens would gain 50 kHz)
40:  7025 - 7125 kHz:  CW & Data (No changes)
40:  7125 - 7300 kHz:  Phone & Image (No changes.  Give Generals the whole thing -- it's a small band)
20:  14025 - 14125 kHz:  CW & Data (Reduce this band by 25 kHz)
20:  14175 - 14350 kHz:  Phone & Image (ex-Adv would lose nothing, Gens would gain 50 kHz)
15:  21025 - 21150 kHz:  CW & Data (Reduce this band by 50 kHz)
15:  21200 - 21450 kHz:  Phone & Image (ex-Adv would gain 25 kHz, Gens would gain 75 kHz)

All other HF privileges would remain the same.  The 160, 60, 30, 17, 12, and 10 meter bands don't have expanded frequencies for Extras, anyway.

3.  Add data privileges for Technicians in their current CW bands (80, 40, 15).  Let Techs have full access to 30 meters.  This is long overdue.

Edit:  40 is so small that there's no reason to not give Generals the whole phone band.  Extras haven't had their own phone band on 40 since 1950 or thereabouts.  And why not allow Techs on 30?  Leave the incentive at 160, 60, 20 and the WARC bands.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 09:56:07 PM by WW7KE » Logged
WA2ISE
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Posts: 802




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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2016, 03:06:44 PM »

Advanced licensees would have to upgrade to Extra or be downgraded to General.


3.  Add data privileges for Technicians in the CW bands below 10 meters.  This is long overdue.


Maybe upgrade older Advanced's to extra, essentially giving credit for some X amount of years of experience.  I don't know where to set the cutoff date, maybe when they changed the tests?

Maybe make 14.310-14.320 an extra sub-sub-band.   Grin

Back in the late 1970's techs had novice CW privileges, my first contact was on CW in one of the novice subbands.   Before then techs couldn't access novice bands, and another time you could have a tech license and a novice license, with different callsigns.  Don't know what happened if you then got your general. 
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WW7KE
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Posts: 325




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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2016, 03:45:23 PM »

Maybe upgrade older Advanced's to extra, essentially giving credit for some X amount of years of experience.  I don't know where to set the cutoff date, maybe when they changed the tests?

As an Advanced since 1972, that would be good for me, but I don't think it's right to gain privileges without earning them.

Quote
Maybe make 14.310-14.320 an extra sub-sub-band.   Grin

In my proposal, the Extra phone band on 20 would be 14.125-14.175 MHz.

Quote
Back in the late 1970's techs had novice CW privileges, my first contact was on CW in one of the novice subbands.   Before then techs couldn't access novice bands, and another time you could have a tech license and a novice license, with different callsigns.  Don't know what happened if you then got your general. 

Separate Novice/Tech callsigns were before my time, but I did know a few Novice-Techs that just used their Tech callsign.  IIRC, the Novice privileges expired after a year and couldn't be renewed, just like all Novices, and the dual licensing went away after Incentive Licensing started in 1967.
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W4KYR
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Posts: 1097




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« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2016, 04:00:57 PM »

Quote
As an Advanced since 1972, that would be good for me, but I don't think it's right to gain privileges without earning them.

I knew someone who got an upgrade from Technician to General without taking any more tests...


The old Technician class had the same written test as the General Class. Back then if you were a Novice you had to upgrade in 2 years or lose your license because it expired and couldn't be renewed.

 So you had to upgrade to Technician or General. If you couldn't get 13 wpm, but you could pass the General written. You became a Technician and were restricted to 50 Mhz and higher.

Then they changed it where you could keep renewing your Novice Class license. Then later on they had "Novice Enhancement"  where they could use a portion of 10 meters SSB.

Then they (I think) they split off the General Written into two parts I & II. The (then, new) no-code technician license was part of the original General written.  The General license was like part II after the change and 13 wpm was still required.

So if you had the newer no-code license, that meant you took the newer Technician written element. If you wanted to become a General you ALSO needed to take the newer General written element and your 13 wpm.

Those who had older Technician's licenses before the date (1987?) where the licenses where split into two separate elements, were grandfathered...in that all they needed was to take the 13 wpm test and get a General license.

Later when they changed all the code tests to 5 wpm. The "Grandfathered Technicians" were entitled to become General class operators. Because they had taken the General written (before 1987 ?) and they passed their 5 wpm.

 I'm not sure what was involved, obviously you needed proof that you were a "Grandfathered Technician" and I think there was some paperwork involved that needed to be sent through the VEC (correct me if I am wrong) or to the FCC and they were upgraded to General without taking any more tests. I knew someone who had this done in NJ.



« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 04:07:31 PM by W4KYR » Logged

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WW7KE
Member

Posts: 325




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« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2016, 06:17:02 PM »

Quote
As an Advanced since 1972, that would be good for me, but I don't think it's right to gain privileges without earning them.

I knew someone who got an upgrade from Technician to General without taking any more tests...


The old Technician class had the same written test as the General Class. Back then if you were a Novice you had to upgrade in 2 years or lose your license because it expired and couldn't be renewed.

 So you had to upgrade to Technician or General. If you couldn't get 13 wpm, but you could pass the General written. You became a Technician and were restricted to 50 Mhz and higher.

Then they changed it where you could keep renewing your Novice Class license. Then later on they had "Novice Enhancement"  where they could use a portion of 10 meters SSB.

Then they (I think) they split off the General Written into two parts I & II. The (then, new) no-code technician license was part of the original General written.  The General license was like part II after the change and 13 wpm was still required.

So if you had the newer no-code license, that meant you took the newer Technician written element. If you wanted to become a General you ALSO needed to take the newer General written element and your 13 wpm.

Those who had older Technician's licenses before the date (1987?) where the licenses where split into two separate elements, were grandfathered...in that all they needed was to take the 13 wpm test and get a General license.

Later when they changed all the code tests to 5 wpm. The "Grandfathered Technicians" were entitled to become General class operators. Because they had taken the General written (before 1987 ?) and they passed their 5 wpm.

 I'm not sure what was involved, obviously you needed proof that you were a "Grandfathered Technician" and I think there was some paperwork involved that needed to be sent through the VEC (correct me if I am wrong) or to the FCC and they were upgraded to General without taking any more tests. I knew someone who had this done in NJ.

OK, if that's the case...  Looking at today's Extra test questions online, it looks very similar to the Advanced test I took in 1972.  Therefore, GIMME MY EXTRA, DAMMIT!!!!! Grin Grin Grin
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W9RND
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Posts: 1718




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« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 09:23:37 AM »

OK, if that's the case...  Looking at today's Extra test questions online, it looks very similar to the Advanced test I took in 1972.  Therefore, GIMME MY EXTRA, DAMMIT!!!!! Grin Grin Grin

www.hamtestonline.com  go there, do the free trial but then after a week or so make sure you eventually subscribe, it opens up the functionality and it is really cheap -- especially when u consider the fee is offset by the fact you wont have to buy any books or study materials and studying will be fun and informative and pretty easy.  if you doubt me, check out the eham reviews: http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3412  Shocked  money back guarantee!  did i mention it makes studying fun?
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WA2ISE
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Posts: 802




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« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 09:58:22 AM »

...
Later when they changed all the code tests to 5 wpm. The "Grandfathered Technicians" were entitled to become General class operators. Because they had taken the General written (before 1987 ?) and they passed their 5 wpm.

 I'm not sure what was involved, obviously you needed proof that you were a "Grandfathered Technician" and I think there was some paperwork involved that needed to be sent through the VEC (correct me if I am wrong) or to the FCC and they were upgraded to General without taking any more tests. I knew someone who had this done in NJ.


While I was doing just this I also took the advanced and extra writtens, got the CSCEs and cashed them in to get my "nickel" extra the day restructuring kicked in in 2000.  :-) 
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W4KYR
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Posts: 1097




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« Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 11:26:32 AM »

Does anyone know where to view those old Amateur Radio Technician/General written questions from the 1960's where they used to require drawing of diagrams? 
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