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Author Topic: 2 Meter on cruise liners  (Read 3249 times)
KE2USA
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Posts: 2




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« on: June 25, 2003, 11:32:48 AM »

Has anyone used 2 Meter HT's aboard cruise ships to communicate with licensed family members?  I know that this is up to the discretion of the Captain but I wonder if anyone has approached this subject with a criuse line.  We are planning a cruise in 2 weeks aboard Carnival. I know that many passengers use FRS but we would prefer 2M on low power setting
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KE6PKJ
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Posts: 256




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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2003, 01:39:54 PM »

I don't see why it would be a problem, or even necessary to ask the captains permission especially since you state that others are using FRS. 440 would be a better choice of frequency though for penetration into the ship. Watt for watt a 2 meter ht with a rubber duck will perform much worse than a 440 ht with a 6.5" whip. Those rubber ducks at vhf are very poor radiators (negative gain). A 440 rig being uhf will reflect and bounce off the ships metal interior much better, and get to where you want to go.
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N3BIF
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2003, 03:37:55 PM »

     You would be wise to get permission, otherwise it is against the law no matter what others maybe doing.  
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N6AJR
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Posts: 9915




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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2003, 05:53:47 PM »

Geee, I guess I am not a real ham, why I use my  2 meter HT when I am walking around with my ham friends and use them when traveling in two or more vehicles.

I am so glad that you have the ability to discerne just who is and is not a real ham.  does that come in the question pool for general, I don't remember it in the Extra question pool.  Or is it an extra award one can earn.. Official person to tell if you are a real ham award.,  No, I don't think even the OO's have that ability.  

I guess you must be a mean spirited , obnoxious, rude Know- It- ALL hame who really shouldn't take it upon him self to  decide just who is and is not a real ham.  

The whole idea behind Amatuer Radio is communications, and last time I heard , talking on 2 meter FM was still communicating.  Perhaps some one on the ship will ask what they are doing and we end up with a new ham convert.  But thanks for your opinion.

As to the orignal question, just call the ticketing agent and ask through them to find out for you.  Thats why they get the Big Bucks..Smiley

73  tom N6AJR
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KD7PPH
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Posts: 21




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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2003, 03:21:15 AM »

While reading this, a thought came to mind.  Would he also be required to obtain permission from the islands when operating within their waters?  Just curious.

Thanks and 73,

KD7PPH
Stuart
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WA9SVD
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Posts: 2201




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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2003, 10:15:33 AM »

To be more specific about what's required, here's the actual FCC rule:

---------------------------------------------------
§97.11 Stations aboard ships or aircraft.


(a) The installation and operation of an amateur station on a ship or aircraft must be approved by the master of the ship or pilot in command of the
aircraft.

(b) The station must be separate from and independent of all other radio apparatus installed on the ship or aircraft, except a common antenna may
be shared with a voluntary ship radio installation. The station's transmissions must not cause interference to any other apparatus installed on the
ship or aircraft.

(c) The station must not constitute a hazard to the safety of life or property. For a station aboard an aircraft, the apparatus shall not be operated
while the aircraft is operating under Instrument Flight Rules, as defined by the FAA, unless the station has been found to comply with all applicable
FAA Rules.
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KE6PKJ
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Posts: 256




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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2003, 11:22:21 PM »

§97.11 Stations aboard ships or aircraft.

This law is only applicable to radios that are to be installed. It does not apply to portable autonomously powered radios. The moment you make a permanent installation, ie: lash an antenna, drill a hole or tie into the vessel or aircrafts power system, then you have to secure permission. The coast guard, port pilots and dock workers don't need the captains permission to operate their ht's when aboard other vessels. This also applies to tourists with cellphones on cruise ships .

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N3ZKP
Member

Posts: 2008




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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2003, 02:13:01 PM »

<< This law is only applicable to radios that are to be installed. It does not apply to portable autonomously powered radios. >>

Horsehocky! The rule applies to ANY radio not actually connected with the operation of the ship/aircraft.

<< The coast guard, port pilots and dock workers don't need the captains permission to operate their ht's when aboard other vessels.>>

The permission is granted as part of the regular operations of the ship/dock/etc. The Coast Guard doesn't NEED permission; civilians DO!

<< This also applies to tourists with cellphones on cruise ships >>

The rule is generally waved for cell phones and FRS radios. Full blown ham rigs are another matter entirely. Royal Carribean Lines DOES NOT allow amateur operations on their ships, no matter what the frequency. (found this out preparing for an Alaska cruise last year)The only reason one can get away with a 2m/44 HT is the crew doesn't know them from little FRS radios.

Lon
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W7RHT
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Posts: 1




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« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2003, 03:33:21 PM »

KE6PKJ is right. 97.11 is in reference to the physical installation and subsequent operation of radio equipment aboard ships and aircraft. Other marine laws and rules pertaining to the operation of incidental radios exist, but 97.11 adresses the installation.

37 years marine RTO.

73,
Scott  
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KE2USA
Member

Posts: 2




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« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2003, 12:19:01 AM »

Thanks for the helpful responses.  Carnival has not responded to my formal request and all agents involved have no clue.  They have apparently never been asked such a question.  The regs are the way I remembered (thanks for quoting them and interpreting them).  I will use no equipment without captain's approval...and no response is no approval.  I never thought that FRS (with it's many careless uses and some abuses)would be preferred over the careful and courteous transmissions of licensed amateurs.  This once again demonstrates the lack of knowledge that the general public has about Ham radio and the operators involved.  We need to expose more people to our hobby / service.  
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WA9SVD
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Posts: 2201




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« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2003, 02:42:13 AM »

Considering the possible consequences (possible confiscation of equipment, possible legal charges, and FCC action) I'd take a conservative interpretation of the rules, where it says "operation" aboard a ship.  We armchair (or is that ham shack?) lawyers are no match for a cruise line and possibly the FCC.
    And no, your operation does NOT necessarily mean you would cause disruption or inconvenience to other passengers.  But it would be nice if you could get a reply from the cruise line stating their policy; for the amount of $$$ you pay for a cruise, the courtesy of a reply would be reasonable.

    And the reason the "FRS" type radios are probably "allowed" (or overlooked) id that they are such low power, they probably pose no danger of interference to any of the ship's communication equipment.  Ham radios, however can have up to 7W. output, and that could put you in an entirely different league.
    Bottom line, GET PERMISSION.  And yes, investigate what's required to operate at your destination islands.  (Of course, if all destinations are U.S. posessions, there's nothing to worry about.)
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KB9YKY
Member

Posts: 1




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« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2003, 02:29:40 PM »

The cruise line's "policy" is irrelevant. The subject is  totally the ship's master's decision regardless of the line's "policy". Also, playing with walkie-talkies in public DOES indeed annoy people. That is a fact, not opinion.
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KB1GMX
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Posts: 761




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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2003, 04:23:28 PM »

97.11 applies even to a HT.  There are no weasel words there.  Also accoring to Maritime law when outside the continental zone the captans word is law.

As first, I'd expect they will go out of their way to help you.

Allison
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WA9SVD
Member

Posts: 2201




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« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2003, 12:47:11 AM »

A document stating the cruise line's policy MAY allow you to approach the Captain/ship's Master, whomever, and politely inform/discuss the request you are making; they may not be informed of the situation.  And their decision IS final.  But playing with an H-T is no more or less annoying than other passengers "playing" with their FRS or cell phones.  <<Just don't try to call "CQ" in the dining room.>>
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N6AJR
Member

Posts: 9915




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« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2003, 11:10:36 PM »

KB9YKY, I did not disagree that he need to check with the ships Captian. I had a problem with some random ham making comments with the express purpose of making the guy on the original posting feel like less of a ham than him.

Using the 2 meter HT as a way to contact another ham is perfectly legal, and an excellent use for a HT. It does not make the operater a CB'er. Although I take offence at the thought that CB.er's are less human than Hams.

This is the same way they (those in charge) made us feel about the north viet nameese folks (I agree as to them being our enemy), but calling them by derougatory names so when we killed them, it wasn't like killing a REAL Person, don't ya know.

To quote the Cook in "The Muppets Take Manhatten", he said "Peoples is Peoples " and ya know he is right. We are all the same when you come right down to it.

I have no problem killing an enemy, but I don't take cheap shots at new hams who are not expieranced as me, I try to help them get there. That is why I post a lot here on Eham, and write articles, ( although I don't spell or type well).

The more you know , the better for all of us. So yes Alice, C.B er's are real people too.

73 tom N6AJR (an old fart and proud of it)
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