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Author Topic: CBers on 10 meters  (Read 13203 times)

Posts: 1435

« on: October 07, 2000, 05:19:58 PM »

At one time, I would scan the CB band to see if 10 meters was open.  I find I no longer have to do that, since there seems to be tons of CBers on 10.  There is a pair of truckers that have made 28.535 their personal frequency.

South America and Asia seem to have decide ten meters is for CBers.

What are other hams doing about this?

My only solution so far, has been to call CQ DX on top of the CBers, hopeing that striking a QSO on top of them, with my antenna aimed at the CBers, will interupt them enough that they QSY off ten meters.  But, in essence, I am creating willfull and malicous interference.  

It seems to me, that the only way to persuade CBers to get off 10 meters is to swarm all over them.  But, my swarm of one or two Hams doesn't seem to be very effective.

Posts: 26


« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2000, 08:09:01 PM »


« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2000, 08:18:52 AM »

I'm not sure if a licensed amateur transmitting "on top of" an illegal operation would be considered "malicious interference" and therefore illegal...however, I believe SOME of these CB-like operations may be legal in some countries.  Either way, I would never let their presence alone prevent me from trying to use the frequency. Smiley

Posts: 90

« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2000, 11:17:09 PM »

It seems that the FCC is too busy watching ebay for 10 meter radios to bother about enforcement.

Posts: 59


« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2000, 12:16:57 PM »

Hams are LICENSED by international treaty for 10 meters, not CBers.  You cannot possibly be interfering with these poachers on our frequencies since they have no right to exist there.  My suggestion is tune up the amp, turn the beams and operate as normal.

« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2000, 10:59:48 PM »

In some countries, 11 meters is a ham band.  I suppose that's why in the US, CBers cannot "DX" - the FCC doesn't want US CBers talking to licensed hams.

Therefore, it's logical to believe that 10 meters might be "legal" for CBers in some countries.

Either way, I wouldn't worry about interfering with them. Smiley

Posts: 7

« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2000, 03:30:52 PM »

Here's a great topic!  I'm sure we've all heard the CB stations all up and down the 10 meter band.  I don't think this problem is going to get any better. This is especially true when you have CB distributors offering sliders, PLL mods and the like for installation in their products.  I've been on a distributor's web page and the author, also owner of the company, was defending and advocating the use of 10 meters by CB operators.  He blames the FCC for being shortsighted and not allowing enough room for all of the CB'ers to operate.  His solution is to send all of the disgruntled and technically savvy to 10 meters.  He says that the band is big enough to be shared by both "services" and that the band is underused by the amateur service.  With this type of thing going on and the regulatory officials being understaffed and outnumbered, it's not going to get better.

Reid,  WI3K

Posts: 4

« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2000, 04:58:04 PM »

Well, from 1 October until 14 October, the ARRL was soliciting reports on unlicensed operation on the 12m and 10m band.  I hope somebody reported what they heard!  

Pierre KC0IGY

Posts: 27

« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2000, 06:15:50 PM »

All I have to say about this topic is, If I hear them then I ignore it . I they are bothering my QSO i swing there way and put on more power and or if that doesnt work.. LEAVE TO a different freq where there rangers and galaxys dont go..

Posts: 90

« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2000, 02:01:00 PM »

There's a great Idea! Leave the band so the CBer's can have it.
 Seems to me, the only way to get rid of them is to track them down and shut them down. You know, enforcement of the law. Strange idea I admit. I also realize it will be an ongoing operation. There are a lot of outbanders out there. But you know this administration: don't enforce the laws, just make new ones.
 I don't, for even a moment, believe these lack of money excuses. Given the equipment at their disposal, I just can't understand why the FCC refuses to do anything.
 They try to restrict the selling of modifiable radios instead of shutting down those who are breaking the law. Don't go after the people breaking the law, go after the radios. Problem is; any competent tech can modify any radio to go anywhere they want it to go. If someone wants to use a frequency, they can put a radio on it. ANY radio. You will never stop the problem by restricting the selling of radios. they are too easy to build. You need to enforce the law and track down the perpetrators.
 If our poor, poverty stricken government needs a hand, how about some of these T-hunting clubs helping out? Seems a worthy cause to help clean up some of our bands.
 Or am I just full of it? (nah, couldn't be!)

Posts: 33

« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2000, 09:05:17 PM »

  I believe the Laws should be inforced !  To this ham op thats seems to be the what was said earlier, its not Inforcing the current Laws we (F.C.C. ) have know that is the problem !
  Thats my two cents worth...

  73 -

« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2000, 10:17:54 PM »

Illegal CB Transceiver List
The FCC's Office of Engineer and Technology (OET) has evaluated the devices listed below and has concluded that these devices are not only amateur transceivers but can easily be altered for use as Citizens Band (CB) transceivers as well. As such, OET has further concluded that these devices cannot legally be imported or marketed within the United States for the reasons discussed below. Further, the FCC General Counsel has issued a decision in a specific case involving one manufacturer and has concluded that dual use CB and amateur radios of the kind at issue may not be approved under the Commission's rules and are in violation of several rules including the RF power level limits of 47 CFR 95.639. (letter from Christopher J. Wright, FCC-OGC to John F. Atwood, US Customs Service, dated May 17, 1999).

Transceivers used in the Amateur Radio Service below 30 MHz do not require FCC authorization prior to being imported into or marketed within the United States, but transceivers for other services, including the CB Radio Service (CB), do require Commission approval. The transceivers listed herein and other similar models operate in the amateur "10-meter band" and are often referred to as "10-meter" radios or "export" radios. The amateur 10-meter band uses frequencies that are very close to the channels set aside for use in the CB service. Some of the transceivers that manufacturers call "10-meter" radios either operate on CB frequencies as manufactured and imported or are designed such that internal circuits can readily be activated by a user, a service technician or a dealer to operate on CB frequencies. According to Section 95.603(c) of the Commission's rules, a CB transmitter is a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate at a station authorized for the CB service. 47C.F.R. § 95.603(c). The Commission's equipment authorization experts in the FCC Laboratory have determined that the transceivers listed herein and other similar models at issue here are intended for use on the CB frequencies as well as those in the amateur service because they have built-in capability to operate on CB frequencies. This capability can be readily activated by moving or removing a jumper plug, cutting or splicing a wire, plugging in a connector, or other simple means. Thus, all the transceivers listed herein and similar models fall within the definition of a CB transmitter. See 47C.F.R. § 95.603(c). A CB transmitter must be certificated by the FCC prior to marketing or importation. 47 C.F.R. §§ 95.603(c); 2.803.

Moreover, the dual use CB and amateur radios of the kind at issue here may not be certified under the Commission's rules. Section 95.655(a) states: ". . .([CB] Transmitters with frequency capability for the Amateur Radio Services . . . will not be certificated.)" See also Amendment of Part 95, Subpart E, Technical Regulations in the Personal Radio Services Rules, FCC 88-256, 1888 WL 488084 (August 17, 1988). This clarification was added to explicitly foreclose the possibility of certification of dual use CB and amateur radios, see id, and thereby deter use by CB operators of frequencies allocated for amateur radio use.

In addition, the Commission's equipment authorization experts have determined that the devices violate or appear to violate a number of the rules governing CB devices. For example, they may use emission types not permitted, or emit RF power at a level in excess of the levels permitted in the CB radio service. See 47 C.F.R. § 95.639.

In view of the foregoing, the following "10-meter" transceivers are not acceptable for importation or marketing into/within the United States. Importation and marketing of these units is illegal pursuant to Section 302(b) of the Communications Act and Section 2.803 of the rules. Willful violations of the Rules and the Act may subject the violator to a monetary forfeiture of not more than $11,000 for each violation or each day of a continuing violation. The Commission continues to review this type of equipment, and additional makes and models may be added to this list in the future.

GALAXY - models: DX33HML, DX 44V, DX55V, DX66V, DX 73V, DX 77HML, DX 88HL, DX99V and Saturn Turbo

CONNEX - models: 3300, 3300HP-ZX, 3300 PLUS and CX-3800

MIRAGE - models: 44, Galaxy 88, 9900 and 2950EX

NORTH STAR - models: NS-3000 and NS-9000

PRESIDENT - models: Grant, J.F.K., Jackson and Lincoln

PRO STAR - model: 240

RANGER - models: AR-3500 and RCI-2950

TEK - model: HR-3950

UNIDEN - models: HR-2510 and HR-2600

SUPER STAR - model: 121

Posts: 52

« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2000, 05:53:12 PM »

I find this whole topic very interesting and I liked a lot of the posts that have been made.  With that in mind, I'd like to make a few, hopefully well thought out, comments on my observations.  To start out with, I'll admit up front that I came from C.B. where I was quite active when I was in high school and C.B. is also what got me interested in amateur radio.  One Christmas I received a SSB C.B. that had already been "opened up."  I didn't ask for it that way.  My father worked with a gentleman that was really into C.B. and told my Dad that he could make the radio "sound better" before he gave it to me for Christmas.  I even did a little operating in the "freeband," although not much.  I only say this in an attempt to show I'm not biased on this.

Now that I've said all that up front, let me make it clear that I feel CB operators should stay within their authorized 40 channels with the amount of power authorized.  In regards to "freebanding," if they should choose to operate on frequencies not allocated to them, fine, I don't really care.  However, I expect them to stay off of 10 meters.  I worked hard to get my license and I take the rules regarding amateur radio seriously and I do my best to follow them.  In regards to unauthorized power, it really amazes me that they even bother with amplifiers.  We all know they would do far better with a good quality antenna.  As a friend of mine put it once, if you have a $1000 station and a $10 antenna then you have a $10 station.

I tend to agree with the sentiment that if you find a CBer on 10 meters... try to have a QSO over them.  They don't belong there.  However, I can also see why they might be there.  I've scanned 10 meters numerous times only to hear NOTHING and yet if I scan through the "freeband" and 11 meters its quite obvious by the noise level that the band is open.  You'll hear plenty of CB DX but may only hear one or two amateurs on 10 meters and it seems that "freebanders" have the "squatter" philosphy: If it's not in use, then it's mine.

I'm glad to see that the FCC is cracking down on these export 10 meter mobiles.  Its been obvious for years that these radios were solely intended to cater to the CB market.  What decent amateur radio operator would want an echo mike and roger beep?  I've seen these radios for sale at various truck stops and there's even a CB operator in Casa Grande, AZ that owns a CB shop and advertises illegal CBs and amplifiers ON channel 19.

How do I know this?  I travel alot to Tucson and while I have a dual band mobile, I also have a fully legal CB radio in the truck.  Which brings me to another possible discussion.  Let's not forget that this illegal operating goes both ways.  I've read several FCC enforcement logs where amateur radio operators have been caught illegally using their amateur radio equipment on 11 meters or even the "freeband."  Granted, the number may be small but I'm willing to bet there are more out there.  If these individuals operate illegally on 11 meters I hope they don't then turn around and complain about CBers running on 10 meters.  It makes them look like a hypocrit.  If you want to run on 11 meters, get a CB radio.  They're really quite cheap compared to the price of amateur radio equipment.  IF CBers want to run on 10 meters then get a license.

« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2000, 02:09:00 AM »

Or, if you could find where the offender lives, just go to his house in the middle of the night, and either rip down his antenna, or take red paint and write "FCC CHECK HERE" across the side/front of his house.  Then maybe he will get the message.

Posts: 16

« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2000, 02:31:11 AM »

Leave the frequency and go to a freq where the rangers and galaxies can't go? FYI, in the ranger 2950, all one needs to do to enable transmit from 26 to 32 mHz (that's twenty-six to thirty-two), is remove the top cover and move a jumper from pins 1-2 to 2-3 and that's it! 2,300 kHz above the top of the 10 meter band. I doubt you are going to transmit beyond that frequency (legally). The problem is the cost of the radios being low enough that they are readily available. They sell the rangers in Flying J truckstops. You hear all kinds of CB shops advertising linears for sale over the air. How many of the illegal ops run Icom, Yaesu, Ten-Tec, etc? All they talk about are their galaxies, rangers, and unidens. But, then again, how many of those illegal ops are fellow hams? Seems to me that if the FCC doesn't enforce the rules, it will continue to be a problem that won't go away.
It would be easy for the FCC to nab a bunch of them. Just have them go to a local truckstop and listen on channel 19. They will hear of all kinds of such equipment being advertised.
 Along those lines, I find it funny to see a group of trucks running together, no more than a quarter mile apart, each running 300 watts or more. I guess they like to see what a 700 over 9 signal looks like on the s-meter! :-)
 As far as causing malicious interference, if the ops are there illegally, then how can they complain about being QRMed? They would have to be pretty stupid to complain!
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