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Author Topic: CBers on 10 meters  (Read 15014 times)
W8MW
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Posts: 326




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« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2011, 07:46:38 AM »

Sincere and well meaning as the posts are here, the simple truth is FCC is not going to put any real muscle behind enforcement.  Minor busts that don't require much manpower or money, yeah they'll do that, mostly letters and phone calls.  But let's not deceive ourselves on what kind of results to expect.  Toward the objective of reducing the number of intruders heard on 10 meters, diddly squat is the technical term for what we can realistically expect from enforcement actions.  I want to be wrong but I sadly conclude this problem isn't going away.

Amateurs need a new attitude when working 10 meters.  We need to be vigilant as in vigilantes.  That is, we need to be willing to take matters into our own hands and stomp on these illegals with all the RF we can muster.   It's great if you can have a legit QSO on the frequency that's being violated.  If not, the world's longest CQ lasted 27 hours one time.  See if you can break that record!  (Ok, that's not true but you get the idea). 

And don't just transmit in the blind.  Learn what to do with your signal to ensure maximum unpleasantness for the radio criminal.  If the criminal is operating USB on 28.100 do you know where your CW carrier needs to be and how to get it there?   If he's running AM do you know where your carrier needs to be? 

Hard to know how effective these grass roots efforts might be.  Probably some small victories.  Hopefully enough irritation that criminals begin to think hams are not such a soft target after all and other frequencies might be a better choice.  At least we will be doing something which beats ranting on eHam and having unrealistic expectations about how somebody else is going to solve the problem.  10-4?   
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K5TEN
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Posts: 146


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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2011, 12:39:44 PM »

Holy thread NECRO-BUMP, Batman!


As much as it is a "drop in the bucket", the FCC is at least sending warning letters (and then NOAL letters if the warning letter is ignored) to not only illegal CB operators, illegal interlopers to the ham bands, but also to CB sales and service shops selling illegal radios and linears as well.  It’s an extremely small start.


Is the FCC expending lots of personel to these issues?  No.  Are they depending on hams and especially OO's to triangulate and track illegal operations to their source and then provide pertinent, accurate, and sufficient reports so the FCC can send warnings?  For the most part, yes.  Will the FCC act if hams gather enough evidence (photos, recordings, video, oral evidence, reports, etc.) to help the Commision to fine illegal CB shops and operators?  Yes.  Both warning letters/NOAL letters can be found on the FCC website.  Is it enough?  Sadly, no.  It's not 1962 anymore and hams are pretty much on our own in the tracking and evidence phases and the OO’s and local hams doing it it can use some help.


Some hams think that calling their “friend” HH5HHH on CW on the offender’s listening frequency is the answer, it is at best only a very temporary bandaid.  While there is no official writ, act, or law, the FCC seems to no longer see itself as the evidence gatherers and detective work to find and then fine illegal CB’ers  and ham band illegal interlopers…it’s up to you and me.  Is there a CB’er in your area with a hugely loud, crappy, signal with obvious “swing” on the meter when he modulates and wrecks your receive for over 1 mHZ…including any illegal invasions into the ham bands?  If so, then  get with your local OO.  If there is none, get at least two or three local hams together and get OO certified via your state OO coordinator.  The FCC seems to trust those in the OO Corps for accurate and unbiased reports.  Then, triangulate the signal and then track it down to the source street address.  With the internet, getting names for the addresses is easy if you do your homework right.  Then turn all the paperwork and recordings and signed reports over to the state OO and send a copy to the FCC Enforcement Office as well.  If need be keep recoring,  tracking, and reporting until your illegal offender gets addressed and get’s taken off the air.


Should you get out and knock on the illegal offender’s door?  Hell no!  You could get killed.  Should you put the word out around town about the guy being recorded & reported?  No.  If fact, don’t do anything besides record, track, and report.  That’s it.
 

All it usually takes is the first official FCC warning letter or two in any specific area and the word seems to travel like wildfire in the “high power” community that “The Feds” have been snooping around and and most of the offenders (at least any “smart” ones, using that term extremely loosely) start running for the woodwork.  Hard headed cases can and do take longer but dogged recording and reporting will eventually garner a NOAL letter.  Be persistant.  Be realistic.  The FCC isn’t going to spend thousands of dollars to house, feed, and pay agents to do some stake-out on the odd chance that your local ass-hat running 500 watts on channel 6 to shoot skip or talk across the street will be on that week.


So, there’s two schools of thought.  One is to turn the dial, go somewhere else, and hope that the FCC or someone else will take care of it.  The other is to be personally proactive and get other like-minded hams together who will dedicate some time to recording, tracking, and reporting and help get rid of the problem.


Neither is always right and neigher is always wrong.  It’s a personal choice. 


Cycle 24 is just getting started.  Whatever CB’ers,  “free-banders”, and illegal ham-band interlopers that didn’t sell their equipment through the doldrums will be back to their old ways.  There is always a “new” crop of idiots who jump on the illegal operations bandwagon every new Cycle as well.  They don’t give a chunky crap where they operate, how much power they run,  how crappy their signal is,  who they interfere with, or how much trashy RF they throw out into their neighborhood…and the new wave is beginning to build.


What will you do?





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KC2RLY
Member

Posts: 37




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« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2011, 04:51:06 AM »


Amateurs need a new attitude when working 10 meters.  We need to be vigilant as in vigilantes.  That is, we need to be willing to take matters into our own hands and stomp on these illegals with all the RF we can muster.   It's great if you can have a legit QSO on the frequency that's being violated.  If not, the world's longest CQ lasted 27 hours one time.  See if you can break that record!  (Ok, that's not true but you get the idea). 

And don't just transmit in the blind.  Learn what to do with your signal to ensure maximum unpleasantness for the radio criminal.  If the criminal is operating USB on 28.100 do you know where your CW carrier needs to be and how to get it there?   If he's running AM do you know where your carrier needs to be? 

Hard to know how effective these grass roots efforts might be.  Probably some small victories.  Hopefully enough irritation that criminals begin to think hams are not such a soft target after all and other frequencies might be a better choice.  At least we will be doing something which beats ranting on eHam and having unrealistic expectations about how somebody else is going to solve the problem.  10-4?   


Yeah because history has proven how effective vigilantism is...
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W3LK
Member

Posts: 5639




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« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2011, 10:28:44 AM »


Yeah because history has proven how effective vigilantism is...

Ask the scum taken out by vigilantes over the years how effective it is. Oh, yea, you can't ask; they no longer are around.

You statement makes as much sense as saying violence never solved anything.
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A smoking section in a restaurant makes as much sense as a peeing section in a swimming pool.
KC2VDM
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Posts: 145




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« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2011, 11:16:06 AM »

I think we need some vigilante enforcement on these illegal CB ops. They're pretty easy to find, just look for the twisted and mangled shopping cart sitting on the roof as the antenna Grin.  If we don't, sooner or later, they'll work their way down to 15, 20, and maybe even 40 meters one day.

-KC2VDM
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W8MW
Member

Posts: 326




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« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2011, 04:17:34 PM »

KC2RLY you don't need to check any history to determine how effective hams can be at defending their own frequencies from intruders.  It's a real-time event where success or failure can be measured by whether the criminals go away or not.  Most hams have insufficient signal generating capacity to cause intruders much grief.  But the guys on our team who have put forth the effort to transmit big signals on 10 are in a position to send a lot of this trash somewhere other than our turf.

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G3RZP
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Posts: 4625




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« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2011, 01:05:27 AM »

It was quite easy from here to shift the Woodpecker with 100 watts and a dipole on 21 MHz... for those old enough to remember the woodpecker.
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N0ZNA
Member

Posts: 115




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« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2011, 06:56:52 AM »

I have been reading this with much interst.I live about 50 miles south of St.Louis Missouri.And have many CBers around me,on am channel 28,and they all run at least 250wts.One three miles away runs a 12 transistor amp,and tears up 28.380 with harmonics.He live a mile off of hwy 67 on meyer road,and its not only his dead key,its his echo and rodger beeps...We have more big amps in my area than any where else in St.Louis area.And we have a couple that run on 28355am{dump truck drivers} running to close to bother,but they get you...Some are to stupid to know what the interfearance is,think its bleed-over....73s from Missouri de n0zna/John
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KB1TXK
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Posts: 441


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« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2011, 12:06:57 PM »

It was quite easy from here to shift the Woodpecker with 100 watts and a dipole on 21 MHz... for those old enough to remember the woodpecker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Woodpecker

^that woodpecker?
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AE4RV
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Posts: 962


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« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2011, 01:45:20 PM »

It was quite easy from here to shift the Woodpecker with 100 watts and a dipole on 21 MHz... for those old enough to remember the woodpecker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Woodpecker

^that woodpecker?

Yes, that one. I remember hearing that when I was a kid with a shortwave receiver.

Is G3RZP implying that he could get them to change frequencies by QRMing it?
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AB2T
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Posts: 246




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« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2011, 03:21:06 AM »

One wonders why CBers just don't get that Technician.  Restructuring gave Technicians the Novice Enhancement frequencies, including 28.300 - 28.500 SSB.  More than a handful of second graders have passed the Technician.  Not a hard exam -- many people pass the Tech after a weekend course.  The General isn't that much more of stretch, and more and more new hams sit and pass the Tech and General in one sitting.  I could see many CBers not getting their ham license back when code testing was compulsory.  No more excuses.

Many hams have had their beginnings on CB.  Most are now violation free, well-spoken, upstanding members of the ham community.  Hopefully many CBers who "go legit" will clean up the language, run a clean rig, stop overdeviating and splattering, put away the roger beep, etc.

Is the "freebanding" illegal operation culture romanticized as an "outlaw" pursuit?  Is getting a ham license selling out to the man?  I never really understood the allure of freebanding when a 25-question test with a 18-question pass will put a CBer on the right side of the law.

73, Jordan   
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G3RZP
Member

Posts: 4625




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« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2011, 06:04:24 AM »

KB1TXK,

Yes, that Woodpecker. Jamming it? Of course not.  Transmitting test signals is totally legitimate. In a band which is allocated to the Amateur Service as a Primary Service (which 21 MHz is in the  International Radio Regulations), it is only possible to 'jam' or 'cause harmful interference to' other stations in the primary service i.e. other amateurs. The only exception is for distress messages in accordance with Article 4.9 and Chapter 30 of the International Radio Regulations. See also Articles 5.43 and 5.43A.

So as far as the bands where the Amateur and Amateur Satellite services have a primary allocation, unless your Administration has entered a footnote into the frequency allocation table that another service is allowed in that band in that country, then causing QRM from test or other signals to an unauthorised intruder, unless it is engaging in distress or disaster trafiic under Resolution 640 or the RR provisions for distress, is not jamming, and is not illegal. Even if it's the military! Countries that have made an allocation another service can't complain, because under Article 4.4, any derogation from the Radio Regulations frequency table is on the basis that that the transmissions within their own country must not interfere with stations outside their own country, and they must accept any interference from stations outside their own country.
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KI4SDY
Member

Posts: 1452




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« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2011, 06:11:40 AM »

AB2T has it right! The answer to the problem is conversion. These CBers could be good potential hams, if educated and directed to a more fulfilling and respectable hobby. The more hams the better I say!  Grin 
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AA4HA
Member

Posts: 1451




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« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2011, 06:43:44 AM »

Long time ago my father was a CB'er (Browning Golden Eagle Mark III days) before he was an amateur OP. CB used to be fairly popular in town with folks chit-chatting a few miles apart. Quite a few of them eventually did earn their novice licenses but it was a different time, different attitudes, CB was licensed back then and even had QSL cards.

I remember a few times when some of the more daring CB enthusiasts would visit another CB'ers house at night who was the source of an incredible amount of RFI and QRM and they would insert a friendly pin through the RG-8. Of course they would snip off the pin head and twist the coax jacket so the thumbtack hole was no longer visible. This usually bought a few days relative quiet from the unsavory operator. Sometimes the magic smoke would even come out of their transceiver and they would be off the air for longer.

Again, different times, different attitudes, nobody would dare push a pin into a coax today.

With our advanced technology a coax cable might get cut and a police stun gun would get splashed across the center pin and shield of the coax for a few minutes. Maybe this would happen to the whip antenna on a parked vehicle. Wouldn't do a darned thing to a tube amp but some semiconductors might let out their magic smoke.

It could be a lesson in how to operate CB QRP with only the 200 mW from the exciter coming out the antenna or maybe the receiver is mostly deaf.

You know how internet rumors get started.
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Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
Lookout Mountain, Alabama
ONAIR
Member

Posts: 1744




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« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2011, 09:34:31 PM »

Long time ago my father was a CB'er (Browning Golden Eagle Mark III days) before he was an amateur OP. CB used to be fairly popular in town with folks chit-chatting a few miles apart. Quite a few of them eventually did earn their novice licenses but it was a different time, different attitudes, CB was licensed back then and even had QSL cards.

I remember a few times when some of the more daring CB enthusiasts would visit another CB'ers house at night who was the source of an incredible amount of RFI and QRM and they would insert a friendly pin through the RG-8. Of course they would snip off the pin head and twist the coax jacket so the thumbtack hole was no longer visible. This usually bought a few days relative quiet from the unsavory operator. Sometimes the magic smoke would even come out of their transceiver and they would be off the air for longer.

Again, different times, different attitudes, nobody would dare push a pin into a coax today.

With our advanced technology a coax cable might get cut and a police stun gun would get splashed across the center pin and shield of the coax for a few minutes. Maybe this would happen to the whip antenna on a parked vehicle. Wouldn't do a darned thing to a tube amp but some semiconductors might let out their magic smoke.

It could be a lesson in how to operate CB QRP with only the 200 mW from the exciter coming out the antenna or maybe the receiver is mostly deaf.

You know how internet rumors get started.
   Did you forget about all the antenna raids?  A rope lassoed around a Super Magnum or a Big Stick and tied to a car's bumper (back when cars actually had them), would always do the trick!  I remember when they went up to Master Blaster's roof, pulled on his coax, and actually lifted his HE-20C and Turner Plus 2 right out of the window!  Fortunately for us all, those lunatics would eventually become well behaved hams.
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