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Author Topic: Is "triple X" illegal when identifying?  (Read 933 times)
N7EOJ
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« on: October 10, 2004, 04:14:13 PM »

There is a newly licensed Amateur operating locally that was assigned a callsign with AAA as the suffix.  On one of his initial repeater conversations, a local channel cop advised identifying with "triple A" is illegal.  He hasn't done so since, but often in conversations, the other side of his conversation will ID and include him with the "triple A". This has kept the "illegal" debate alive.
I have searched Part 97, FCC and ARRL sites for any reference to "illegal or unacceptable" identification and only find the references to obscenity.
I'm just wondering if this is another petty channel cop thing like using CB jargon when operating on the Amateur bands, or if there really is a list somewhere that spells out "illegal" or incorrect ways to identify your station.
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N8UZE
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2004, 05:45:26 AM »

Well on HF for those whose native language is not English, "triple A" could be quite confusing.  Even if not illegal, it could be considered poor amateur practice.  One is required to clearly ID their station.
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N7NBB
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2004, 06:36:57 AM »

ILLEGAL ?  probably not, except for the statement that you need to "CLEARLY" identify your station by callsign"... Does (did) the FCC print "TRIPLE-A" on the license ? nope.

The point I think comes down to JARGON, and LOCALLY accepted operating conventions(methods)  Some locations the locals say the frequency pair when calling someone on a repeater ( "XX7XXX this is YY7YYY on nine-oh three-oh")

There are arguments both FOR and against this behavior. let's not go there....

If you buy a sailboat and want to "talk the talk" with your new found friends, you certainly don't say, " I need to get this rope through that pulley at the top of this pole."

In saying that callsign in normal conversation (as opposed to the LEGAL ID at ten min intervals and at the end... I think to say "TRIPLE A" would be OK but still it's going to sound strange and "affected" to those not used to hearing it.

"AAA" takes a whole lot LESS TIME to say than Triple A, then there is that "un-intended" ADVERTISEMENT for the Automobile Club... or the un-intended association with the Alcoholics help organization...  and THAT wouldn't be LEGAL either...

All else considered...
I'd get a VANITY CALL - or at least change it to the next available callsign.

73
CAM
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AA4PB
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2004, 11:03:48 AM »

I think people worry way too much. Using "tripple A" for "AAA" is not illegal and I'm quite sure that the FCC will not send a violation for advertising the automobile club.
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KE6PKJ
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2004, 01:25:05 PM »

Triple A? I can't see that as being any more "illegal" than saying double-u for W.

Within the english language people pronounce the letter "Z" as Zed and others say Zee. In Ireland the letter "H" is pronounced hay'ch while on this side of the pond we say ai'ch. I've heard air traffic controllers pronounce the number "9" as niner, as in Two Charlie Niner (2C9) you're clear for takeoff.

I wouldn't worry to much what the self appointed frequency cops say.
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N8UZE
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2004, 05:22:56 PM »

"Niner" for nine is standard usage in formal communications to insure that it is not confused with five.  Its usage is required in air traffic control, MARS, and I'm sure several other communications situations.  In normal speech, these are easily and often confused.  By designating "niner" to be used for nine, the confusion level has been reduced.

In English, the only available name for the letter "W" is "double u".  We don't have any other choice.  The name actually has historical significance.  When this letter was originally created, it was formed by linking two U's and was thus a "double U."
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AE6IP
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2004, 07:00:36 PM »

The regs require that the ID be in "plain language". There is no formal requirement that it be given phonetically, or usng a particular phonetic alphabet, or even by saying each letter seperately.

If your call were K9HOG, you could id as Kilo Niner Hog and it would be OK with the FCC.

If you want the other station to recognize your call correctly, though, you might think better of it.
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N8UZE
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2004, 05:48:53 AM »

AE6IP wrote:
The regs require that the ID be in "plain language". There is no formal requirement that it be given phonetically, or usng a particular phonetic alphabet, or even by saying each letter seperately.

If your call were K9HOG, you could id as Kilo Niner Hog and it would be OK with the FCC.

If you want the other station to recognize your call correctly, though, you might think better of it.  
_____________________________________________________

Since Kilo Niner Hog for K9HOG is ambiguous as it could be interpreted as K9H, it probably would not be OK with the FCC.  

97.119 (a)
"...for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions known to those receiving the transmission..."

Note that "those receiving the transmission" does not restrict it to the receiving station as other sections of Part 97 do or to participants in the conversation.  "Those receiving the transmissions" could be an official observer, an FCC monitor, a scanner listener, etc.

Saying the individual letters is not ambiguous (although sometimes hard to hear clearly) and using a standard phonetic language is not ambiguous.
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OBSERVER11
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2004, 01:30:36 PM »

yes, it is illegal, his call is NOT "Triple A", his call is A A A - and that is what his license says.

If I were the OO inthe area and I heard this LID, I would be sending him a reminder that he need to PROPERLY identify.

He can ID with "triple A" and follow it up with A A A and be legal.
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K0AAA
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2004, 09:29:11 PM »

KØAAA is our club call.  When it is used on the air, we say "KØ A A A" followed by "K Ø triple A." As long as it is identified properly within the required time period, it shouldn't be a problem.  I've been a ham for 44 years and I think we should all lighten up abit and focus on the positive things of this great hobby!!! Zed  
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KC0KBH
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2004, 02:26:30 PM »

Does he happen to have a lot of a particular type of battery? Smiley
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W9WHE-II
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2004, 08:47:39 AM »

Is there any question about what his callsign is when he does this?  If the answer is "NO", then you are probably getting your undies in a bundle over nothing.




W9WHE
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