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Author Topic: 10m calling frequency?  (Read 7325 times)
WB2WIK
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« on: June 24, 2008, 03:00:23 PM »

I see in "Strays" this month the following comment:

>Call Frequencies - New Hams are killing the call frequencies. One example is 28.400. By Gentlemans Agreement has been used as a call and move off freq since back in 1979 in my memory, and maybe longer than that. Now the new guys call CQ and have one chat after another and won't move even when the situation is explained to them. Other examples are CW being used on the phone call freqs.
K4SFC
2008-06-13<

I'd just like to say I disagree entirely with this.  I've been on 10m a lot longer than since 1979 and there isn't any 10m "calling frequency."  Why would there be, when the phone section of the band is 1.4 MHz wide, signals are traditionally strong and there are hundreds of open frequencies available?  I don't condone nor honor a 10m calling frequency, surely not 28.400.

If you refer to AC6V's amazingly informative website http://www.ac6v.com, you'll find this about the 10m band:

>10 METERS
28.025 CW Rare DX & DXpeditions Frequently Operate Here – Split
28.060 QRP CW Calling frequency
28.080 RTTY Rare DX & DXpeditions Frequently Operate Here -- Split
28.080 to 28.100 Primary Range for RTTY
28.1010 10/10 Intl CW Calling Frequency
28.110 QRP Novice/Tech Calling FREQ
28.190-28.225 Beacons
 
28.200 NCDXF/IARU beacons (STAY OFF OF THIS FREQUENCY) Many Hams rely on these beacons for propagation determination. For Details - see NCDXF/IARU International Beacon Network

28.380 10/10 SSB Intl Calling Frequency
28.385 QRP SSB Calling frequency
28.425 10/10 SSB Intl Calling Frequency – Another is 28.400
28.495 SSB Rare DX & DXpeditions Frequently Operate Here -- Split
28.600 Old General Callin Frequency - Still used by Old Timers
28.675~28.685 SSTV Operating Frequency -- IARU Region 1
28.680 SSTV Operations USA/Canada
28.825 10-10 Backskatter Net - Paper Chasers Net
28.885 6M DX Liaison Frequency -- Listen here for 6 Meter DX opening announcements and discussions.
28.945 FAX Operating Frequency
29.000-29.200 AM Operations
29.300-29.510 Satellite Downlinks
29.520-29.580 Repeater Inputs
29.600 FM Simplex - Calling Frequency
29.620-29.680 Repeater Outputs<

Here, it is listed that there are *many* 10m "calling frequencies," including 28.380, .385, .400, .425 and .600, as well as several others that are more specifically dedicated to certain types of operation.

It's all silly.  We're not using crystal controlled rigs with a few channels in them, and there's no reason to pretend we are.

There are VHF-UHF-SHF-EHF "calling frequencies," for sure, for valid reasons: Signals are traditionally much weaker and antennas are extremely directive.  If people aimed antennas in all different directions and listened on all different frequencies, they'd never find each other.  There are calling frequencies on FM because mobiles using channelized equipment should concentrate on driving and not tuning around.  There are perfectly good reasons for calling frequencies, but 10m SSB doesn't fall into any of these categories.

WB2WIK/6  
 
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W5CPT
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 04:23:28 PM »

Steve,
I think the idea came from that fact that 28.400 is  the center or the 300 - 500 Tech (used to be Novice) SSB band.  It always seemed like a good place to start but like you I never saw anything that made it "official".

btw: My first HF contact was on 28.400 in 1991 and was OK1APV.  I had passed the 5 WPM test the night before and when I got home with my certificate I called on 28.400 . It was of course dead being late at night. When I got home from work the next day, I came in, fired up the TS-520 and there was OK1APV calling CQ on (you guessed it!) 28.400 .  My first HF contact was DX and I have been hooked since.

...-.-  Clint - W5CPT
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WB2WIK
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Posts: 20636




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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 09:18:14 PM »

Clint, good comments.

I understand it might be convenient to focus on the center of the Tech band or whatever, but no HF band ever had a "calling frequency."

Is there a 20m calling frequency?  40m?  80m?  What are they?

The answer is, "no," there aren't any.  And same holds true on 10m, it's an HF band.

The reason I posted this in the first place is that I've been on 28.400 and heard "comments" from the Peanut Gallery that I shouldn't be there.  Why not?  I'm making dozens of contacts there, and I asked several times if the frequency was in use, first.  Nobody said it was, so I called CQ, and got two hours' worth of answers thereafter.

BFD.  If you don't like it, find another frequency and call CQ.

WB2WIK/6
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NE5C
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2008, 02:50:11 AM »


I tend to agree also...10 meters has been as dead as a "BRICK" and last weekend I made some great contacts with quite a few fellow operators.

It was quite nice to work 10 meters again, a band that I haven't called CQ on for some time believing it has had no propagation.

I'd say "give it a break" I am happy to see activity on 10 Meters and look forward to more great Qso's.
If a fellow asks...Is this frequency in use? and The frequency is NOT in use?

Go for it...and that - is that.
God Bless and 73

Jerry N5JFJ

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WB2WIK
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 09:30:17 AM »

My small annoyance with the "Strays" posting was that he said "New hams are killing the call frequencies," and I don't believe that's even slightly true.

-I use 28.400 or any other frequency I happen to pick, after asking if the frequency's in use 2-3 times and receiving no reply; and I've been licensed 43 years, so I don't consider myself a "new ham."

-And, there aren't any "call frequencies" to "kill," because 10m, like all other HF bands, doesn't have any established calling frequencies.  What it does seem to have, per the AC6V list, is a whole lot of frequencies used for various operations including 10/10 international calling.  28.400 is one of those, and one of many.

WB2WIK/6
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WW5AA
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« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2008, 07:57:02 AM »

Steve,

I guess I must really be a LID, first lic. in 1964 and have almost always started at 28.400/28.450. Like you I listen for a few min., ask if the frequency is clear, then call CQDX. I am so ashamed (:-)

73 de Lindy
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W5CPT
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Posts: 557




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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2008, 08:08:53 AM »

Lindy,
I think you missed Steve's point. Steve (and I) never said NOT to use 28.400 to call. In fact You echoed what I said.  I usually start at 28.400 on 10M.  The post Steve was talking about claimed that 28.400 was a recognized Calling Frequency such as 50.125 on SSB 6M, where you call and move off.  The poster in Strays (I think) said folks were ruining the 10M Calling Freq and Steve (& I again) said "It just ain't so".

I hope to hear you (or anybody actually) on 28.400 soon.  I miss 10M.

Clint - W5CPT
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2008, 03:53:00 AM »

Frequency, and modes allowable per license class are listed in Part 97 of the FCC Rules and Regs.  If anyone wishes the quote of specific section etc just ask.

These are the ONLY agreements that have any validity under FORCE OF LAW.  Verbal customs NOT codified by the FCC Rules and Regs are NOT law per Part 97.

Example, sstv and CW.... PER the Rules and Regs Part 97, is legally allowed anywhere from hmmmm 28.300 to 29.700 if a persons license class authorizes transmissions on these frequencies.  Thus per the FCC RULES and regs, the SUPREME LAW, anyone can use CW or SSTV anywhere on these frequencies regardless of any non-legal binding agreements and as long as all other regs are followed (ID, power, etc).  By the way SSTV does require ID, most commonly done by putting the call sign in the picture BUT you can also turn on an auto CW ID feature on most computer programs to double ID just in case.

Gentlemen READ your Rules and Regs word for word WITHOUT ANY interpretation at all, none, no matter what.  
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2008, 08:56:23 AM »

>RE: 10m calling frequency?       Reply
by W5CPT on June 26, 2008    Mail this to a friend!
I hope to hear you (or anybody actually) on 28.400 soon. I miss 10M.<

::Clint, the band was open E-W last evening and I worked a bunch of guys back in KY, TN, NC, SC, GA, FL as well as OH, IN, IL, MT, WY.

I completed 20 contacts in about two hours of rag chewing between about 0000 UTC and 0200 UTC.

The band has definitely been open (Es) pretty much every single day, but no way to tell 'when' or 'where.'

Some days, from here in Los Angeles it's only open N-S to W7, VE7 etc.  However I did catch an opening 3 weeks ago where I worked NH and HI (KH6) at the same time, it was open 2x-3x Es hops in both directions at the same time!

73

Steve WB2WIK/6

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N4VNV
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2008, 06:57:14 AM »

I specifically said; "By Gentleman's Agreement". As far as being a useful thing, if you have a "Call Frequency" and need Delaware for WAS, you can call CQ Delaware on it and maybe get the contact you need. Another is, if a lot of people monitor the same frequency you can call CQ once or twice, move off and talk. Instead of calling CQ many times in many different places. As you stated, since there are thousands of frequencies to choose from, why would you refuse to go along with the idea. If you check 10M phone, you will see for yourself that 28.400 is the MOST congested part of the band. The reason for that is the multitude of hams like me that DO KNOW about the Gentleman's agreement for that frequency. That has been going on for more years than I can remember. Some people just like to refuse to co-operate because they can. That's life..but new hams HAVE ruined the call frequencies IN MY OPINION. If you disagree that's fine, but don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say. I have left 28.400 and don't care what you guys do. You are not the source of my paycheck.
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K9FON
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2008, 08:17:49 AM »

It's all silly. I have made several contacts on 28.400 and ive never been asked to move. Although a couple of times the other station i contacted requested we move and thats not a big deal. Right now with ol' Sol being stubborn ANY activity on 10 is welcome!!
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KB7PST
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2008, 10:33:22 AM »

To let you know where my point of view comes from:

For the first few years as a ham, I spent time working the FM satellites of the day. AO-21 was my favorite. You had to cooperate with other stations to make the most of a seven-minute pass. You had to pay attention and be considerate of the needs of other operators on the bird as it made it's pass. If you held the bird for the full pass, and kept doing so pass after pass, you were often times ignored.

So I tend to look at e-skip the same way. I have potentially a few minutes to make contact with another station in a rapidly changing environment. If the band plays nice, then I might be able to stretch that into a nice QSO.

Point is, for me to get what I want, and for you to get what you want, we need to be considerate.

So, if you are going to take the time to ask "is this frequency in use", then five minutes into your QSO you find the band has shifted and now the frequency IS in use, then what should the considerate operator do? With a wonking amount of space available on 10M (28.3 to at least 28.8, if not more), seems to me that the best choice is to QSY. I do not believe that working a station on top of another is either considerate or a best practice. Intentionally doing so is rude.

If 28.4 *isn't* a "calling" frequency, then why plant a flag there and not move? Seems like that's a double standard to me. If 28.4 is really really busy, seems like the gentlemanly thing to do would be move the QSO up or down. That also rewards the stations who pay attention, who listen up and down the band, and teaches good operating practices to others should they not know them already.

Lastly, if you are going to just take part 97, and tell everyone else off, you are a lid. Plain and simple. Part of the explicit reason for their being amateur radio is to foster "international goodwill", and an attitude that says operate where you want to and when you want to with no regard for anyone else doesn't do that.

73, Alex KB7PST
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2008, 09:28:10 PM »

>Not about calling frequencies at all...  Reply  
by KB7PST on July 8, 2008  Mail this to a friend!  
To let you know where my point of view comes from:

For the first few years as a ham, I spent time working the FM satellites of the day. AO-21 was my favorite. You had to cooperate with other stations to make the most of a seven-minute pass. You had to pay attention and be considerate of the needs of other operators on the bird as it made it's pass. If you held the bird for the full pass, and kept doing so pass after pass, you were often times ignored.

So I tend to look at e-skip the same way. I have potentially a few minutes to make contact with another station in a rapidly changing environment. If the band plays nice, then I might be able to stretch that into a nice QSO.

Point is, for me to get what I want, and for you to get what you want, we need to be considerate.

So, if you are going to take the time to ask "is this frequency in use", then five minutes into your QSO you find the band has shifted and now the frequency IS in use, then what should the considerate operator do? With a wonking amount of space available on 10M (28.3 to at least 28.8, if not more), seems to me that the best choice is to QSY. I do not believe that working a station on top of another is either considerate or a best practice. Intentionally doing so is rude.

If 28.4 *isn't* a "calling" frequency, then why plant a flag there and not move? Seems like that's a double standard to me.<

::It's a simple matter of "first come, first served," same as picking a place to operate on any HF band.  14.200 is a really good frequency on 20m, and a lot of DX seems to hang out there.  Ditto 21.300 on 15, or 18.130 on 17, etc.  So, I'll ask if the frequency is in use a few times, and if nobody I can hear answers that, I'll call CQ there...which could lead to 20-30 contacts in a row.  So what?  When I'm finished, if somebody else wants to grab that frequency, they certainly can.  In the interim, there are hundreds of other frequencies.

I wouldn't dream of occupying 14.200 if somebody's already there.  I just figure, "lucky him," because he got there first.   Big deal.

What you're suggesting is nutty to me.  You're suggesting that somebody who is already using the frequency vacate it and go elsewhere because during the course of operations others start using the same frequency.

Nope, makes no sense to me!

WB2WIK/6

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KB7PST
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2008, 07:51:12 AM »

I think we are both missing each others points. I understand there being an etiquette about "having" a frequency. It is, admittedly, a very new concept to me because of my background. What I am suggesting, however, is that sometimes who "had" the frequency first can be unclear, and by stubbornly holding a frequency because one "has" it, can cause unneeded interference and potential misunderstandings. It doesn't seem to be as much of an issue on other bands such as 15, 20, 40, because those bands do not shift quite as fast as 10 and 6 seem to do.

Here is a hypothetical to explain my point. I tune 28.4, ask if clear, and hearing nothing call CQ. A station in Montana comes back. We ragchewing a bit, he's about S9. Suddenly I start hearing an already ongoing QSO, a bit faint, but starting to get stronger, from New York. What is the considerate thing to do? My QSO may not have started first - is that the measure of whose frequency it is? Should the better DX get the frequency? And who determines that? Or should I just keep operating on top of the NY station - which in my view, obliterates any chances for anybody else that can hit him via skip to work him?

73, KB7PST
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2008, 08:25:14 PM »

KB7PST, that was a very good example!

Here's what I do, as a 43-year licensed veteran of the 10 meter band, operating through four sunspot cycles and looking forward to the next one:

If I hear new activity on a frequency I'm on, activity not previously heard, and the band conditions change so I'm now hearing it, I always invite the new stations being heard to join in my QSO.  Simple as that.  If I hear them, they should hear me, and we can be one, big happy family, all working each other.

Now, instead of two separate QSOs going on a long distance apart, we could have one, that everyone can enjoy.  It's the proper thing to do.  And I've done it thousands of times.

No reason for anyone to change frequency.

I will usually also say something like, "Hey, Joe!  Nice to meet you, didn't hear you earlier.  I've been on frequency since 5:00, do you want to move, or do you think I should?" and then turn it back to him for a response.

He might say, "No, Steve, take the frequency, I just got here at 5:30" and that would be the end of it.

Politics, I love 'em.

WB2WIK/6
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