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Author Topic: Racism has no place in ham radio  (Read 1613 times)
K6RB
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Posts: 3




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« on: April 19, 2009, 05:46:03 PM »

Ham radio has been around for nearly a century, now. One of its enduring characteristics was its politeness. With rare exceptions, hams did not discuss politics, religion, racial issues or the like on the air, in ham magazines, at forums, etc. What we all had in common was our interest in radio, and despite any differences we may have had about the aforementioned subjects, ham radio was a tie that bound us together. We are seeing an increase in intolerance on many levels, worldwide, but ham radio has been largely immune. So, it was with great disappointment that I learned that Francisc ("Fery"), YO4PX, was assaulted with online hatred by two other Romanian amateurs - YO8RPV and YO7HMY. The exchanges took place on a ham radio reflector. My own personal response to this will be to never work these two hams. But I believe the Romanian Amateur Radio Federation needs to know that posting such hateful messages on its Website is unacceptable. By extension, an IARU organization's Website is a representation of the organization. If it allows such messages to be posted, it becomes complicit. YO4PX is due an apology.
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WG7X
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2009, 10:55:43 PM »

OK, taking you post at face value, I would agree that racism has no place in Amateur radio.

But...

Could you explain the circumstances a bit more so that we can understand what exactly you are talking about?

Two hams from one European country slam another ham in the same country, presumably in the language they all share.

Where is the racism? What ethnicity's are involved to make it racism rather than the usual internet BS?

Enquiring minds and all that...

73 Gary
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2009, 03:55:55 AM »

Down thru the recorded history of mankind there has always been racism in one form or another.  It started when the cave man tribe on one side of the hill did not like the cave man tribe on the other side of the hill becuause of whatever reason.

It has always been so since then because of one thing or another.

Just because a person does not say something does not mean that they do not believe that very same thing.  I know many a person who will speak very  very ill of certain races behind their backs and in private but who are very very silent on that same subject in public.  Just because a person does not say something does not mean anything.  Racism and hate lie in the heart not in mere words not spoken.

So it was, so it is and it appears so it will forever be.



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AA4PB
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Posts: 12784




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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 05:23:45 AM »

But the point is that it has no place being expressed on amateur radio.

The Radio Amateur is

CONSIDERATE...never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.

LOYAL...offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in the United States is represented nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE...with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.

FRIENDLY...slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED...radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC...station and skill always ready for service to country and community.

--The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928.
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KB9CRY
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WWW

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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2009, 06:25:39 AM »

So what is the other side to the story?
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W3LK
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2009, 06:46:50 AM »

<< So, it was with great disappointment that I learned>>

Did you actually read this for yourself or is this some "story" that's getting passed around?

<< that Francisc ("Fery"), YO4PX, was assaulted with online hatred by two other Romanian amateurs - YO8RPV and YO7HMY. The exchanges took place on a ham radio reflector.>>

It took place ON THE INTERNET, not on amateur radio. Two totally different things. There are more important things to worry about in the world than three foreign hams having a spat on some Internet reflector.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2009, 09:14:16 AM »

PB I hate to tell ya this but the person you quoted is as dead as the radio envirinment he lived in.  Todays radio environement is entirely different than even 10 years ago much less 1920 something.

As evedenced by the fact that the qualities you stated are not in the Rules and Regulations as put forth by the FCC that amateurs under the authority of the FCC are obliged to observe-- least to my knoledge.
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2009, 09:17:15 AM »

I quite agree with LK...

Provided that the exchange takes place on the internet Amateur Radio has absolutely nothing to do with the matter at all.  

The matter should be directed to the site manager of the web page that held the content.



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N5LRZ
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2009, 09:19:41 AM »

Re CRY...

I quite agree because every story has two sides not just one.


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K6RB
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2009, 10:44:28 AM »

First, thank you for the replies I have received. One or two have asked me for the source, the other side of the story, and inquired if I was just relaying something that had been sent to a group. I heard about this incident directly from Fery in a personal email note. Fery had posted a polite critique of a posting by a high-ranking officer of his country's IARU organization. It was not personal, and dealt with ham-related issues. In response, he received first a very personal, very anti-Semitic response by the YO8 followed by an even more vitriolic, anti-Semitic message from the second op (the YO7). Since these postings were in the local language, I read the translated versions. Trust me, they were awful. The fact that they occured on the Internet rather than on the air, I think, is not the issue. My two ham-related clubs have reflectors, too, and neither of them would have posted such hateful, hate-filled messages. If the Websites were not ham-related, I would have no issue. I believe in freedom of speech. But, as I said in my original posting, ham radio has a tradition of being inclusive and apolitical. In my 51 years of ham radio, during the darkest days of the Cold War, I enjoyed dozens of QSOs with UAs and eastern European stations where political differences were never mentioned and the conversations were polite and respectful. I regret to see even a single deviation from that precedent. And, before I am accused of a sympathetic ear to only a single type of racism, my reaction would have been the same if Fery were a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim or any faith. It was completely uncalled for, and I felt compelled to address it. As someone once said "evil is pushed forward by the silence of good people."
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2009, 10:55:58 AM »

Re K6RB...


Well then you had better get over yourself because the last time I looked "Brotherly Love" was definately not the guiding piciple of this word in the here and the now--fact not fiction.
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N3JT
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2009, 11:05:23 AM »

I am not sure I agree that racist commentary on a ham radio reflector is exempt from hams' concern simply because the words were not expressed over the air.  The commentary in this case was reportedly intended to demean, embarrass and cause personal hurt to a minority group in a ham radio environment and to one ham in particular, an old man whose entire family was murdered by the people these two vicious YO hams emulate.  Get the picture?  Many countries make such speech illegal just as in the United States some forms of hate speech are properly illegal.  That the perpetrators are hams and uttered their venon in a ham radio context opens them to a standard that we hams all hold as important and universally applicable.  And that is the reason they should be held accountable by their radio association if not their government.
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W3LK
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Posts: 5644




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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2009, 11:33:51 AM »

<< And that is the reason they should be held accountable by their radio association if not their government.>>

NO! NO! NO! ABSOLUTELY NO!!!!

While the exchange may be despicable, people are entitled to hold their opinions. When an organization tells someone that they must be silent unless their opinion meets some imaginary standard, that is WRONG!

When a government tells someone they must be silent unless their opinion meets some imaginary standard, that is WRONG and is DICTATORSHIP!

There is too much politically correct censorship of personal opinions already. It has infected this country to such an extent that of someone disagrees with our president, they are in danger of being accused of being a domestic terrorist by both the news media and the Secretary of Homeland Security.

If someone is not free to express their opinion, then they have become a slave!

Other than the fact that three hams are involved, this has nothing to do with amateur radio per se. If this were three auto racers, sheepherders or plumbers, this post would never have seen the light of day.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
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A smoking section in a restaurant makes as much sense as a peeing section in a swimming pool.
N5LRZ
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2009, 02:05:38 PM »

I agree with LK...

Freedom to think and say what you think should never be under the control of the government, any government, as long as that speaking does not insite to deliberately violate criminal law to the extent of being the catalyst of the illegal act--example insite to riot.



OF COURSE, one should exercise discretion in the exercise of that freedom in that one could find themselves physically surrounded by people bent on causing them serious physical damage.  Kind of like wearing a jewish religious beanie to a KKK Meeting--not exactly going to go over very well.


BUT freedom so say your mind is a two way sword.  The other side has the same right as well.
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2009, 02:16:34 PM »

RE JT...

What forms of hate speach are illegal in the US?

Freedom to speak ones mind is a door that swings both ways.  Freedom for one side is the same freedom for the opposition side as well.

The courts can and have ordered the removal of relitious symbols from public property.

The courts have ruled that the KKK have a legitimate right to march and meet on state capital steps just like everyone else--permits required of course.

So just what do you mean, be very very specific please, by illegal hate speach is not allowable (other than ordering or insiteing to commit an act or action that would stand alone as a criminal act unto itself).
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