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Author Topic: Purchase a M802(Marine SSB) or 706MKIIG ???  (Read 1205 times)
SAILOR_MAN
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Posts: 2




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« on: December 14, 2005, 10:06:40 AM »

As far as I can tell from reading through the various forums this dilema has not been addressed. I have just obtained my ham licence as I plan to sail away in about a year. The next thing to do is purcahse the radio that I will be using on the boat. I will probably never become an avid ham radio user away from the boat but when on the boat I would like to be able to talk to my family at home from 1/2 way around the world, use the radio for data (email and weather Faxes), and make contacts with hams in other countries that I will visit. This request is not about installation, or potential problems with grounding, RF noise etc. it is about which radio may be best for my needs. What I do know is that the M802 has the capability of using both the marine band frequencies as well as the ham bands up to the 10 meter band, whereas the 706MKIIG is for ham bands only but also has the 6 meter, 2 meter and 70 cm bands. I have also found out that the IC706 MKIIG is more frequency flexible and has far better noise filtering, but the M802 has DCS (potentially important for us sailors) and it can automatically tune the radio when using Airmail (a software program for email).  The M802 also can put out a true continuous 150 watts on HF while the 706 puts out 100 watts max. Also a dealer of marine SSB radios told me that the 802 is built more robustly than the 706MKIIG, the 802 has O-rings for the marine environment and the 802 is more friendly to use if the boat was rocking wildly - but that is their opinion, I have not seen those things listed on a spec sheet. In my local radio store the 706MKIIG is about 1/3 of the price of the 802. If I went the 706MKIIG route I would have to purchase another rig to use the marine SSB bands but I think that I could get a used marine SSB radio and spend about the same as if I purchased the 802, so the cost is not a factor. Two radios are not necessarily what I want because of limited space so I need some input and opinions from experienced users. This is a major purchase for me and I can't seem to get all of the information that I need from reading the literature, and I have to admit - some of what I read on the sheets I do not understand. Can anyone help me?
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N3ZKP
Member

Posts: 2008




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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2005, 11:02:37 AM »

The M802 is designed up front for a salt water enviroment. The 706 is not and will not last more than a few months (at best) unless it is in an enclosed cabin.

Also, the 706 is not legal on the marine frequencies, while the 802 can legally be used on both.

If this is your only means of communications while at sea, there really is no choice. Get the M802.

Lon
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AA4PB
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Posts: 12906




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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2005, 11:34:11 AM »

In addition to the points that Lon brought out, I doubt that you'll have a lot of use for 2M and 440 on the boat. Perhaps in port you might use it to work some local repeaters. You'd be better off to get a separate 2M/440 rig for that or perhaps better to get an HT so you can take it with you when you leave the boat.
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WA4PTZ
Member

Posts: 528




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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2005, 05:38:45 AM »

Yes the M802 is your answer. As previously pointed
out, not just at sea but near the sea a salt water
mist is always present. It gets into everything
just as dust would. If your equipment is not
protected from the very air around you then it
will fail in a short period of time.
73 and God Speed,
Tim
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N3ZKP
Member

Posts: 2008




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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2005, 02:04:23 PM »

I don't mean to sound condecending, but you do know you will have to upgrade to at least a General class amateur license before you set sail, don't you?  There are no HF privileges in the Technician class license.
73,

Lon - N3ZKP
Baltimore, Maryland
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SAIL_AWAY
Member

Posts: 19




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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2005, 09:45:08 AM »

hi sailor!

i am right there with you, same type of questions, about the same spot.  i too will be on a long distance voyage and plan to be out in the ocean a long time, far from land, etc, and i too am trying to get all of my options worked out for radio, getting email, weather, all that.  it is a lot to read about. as far as radio goes it is hard for me to disagree with people who have much more experience than i do, etc ... but, let me try Smiley lol.  i'm going with the 706mkiig.  yes, the 706mkiig might fail in the ocean environment before the marine radios, i believe that is true.  but so what ?  i'm going with the old saying ... 2 is 1, 1 is none.  i'd rather have 2 (or maybe even 3) 706's than 1 of anything else, i don't care what it is.  and at 1/3rd the price that's an easy decision to make.  my setup will include another marine vhf/uhf in addition to the ham radio.  in any case it is a big decision and i am thinking a lot about it too and prototyping a system now in my truck to get it all working and gain experience before i get out on the water with it.  on the ocean the radio is your only link.  i really hope you will post as you go along about how things are going, what type of system you put together, etc, so that i can learn from what you do.
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N3ZKP
Member

Posts: 2008




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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2005, 07:57:33 PM »

Hmmm ...

Anyone besides me notice that SAILOR_MAN and SAIL_AWAY have exactly the same writing style (or rather lack of writing style) and are discussing virtually the same future sailing scenero?
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SAIL_AWAY
Member

Posts: 19




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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2005, 12:40:57 AM »

> Anyone besides me notice that SAILOR_MAN and SAIL_AWAY
> have exactly the same writing style (or rather lack
> of writing style) and are discussing virtually the
> same future sailing scenero?

you know, i just don't get what it is about this site.  i have been here a few weeks and have tried to participate in a number of discussions and i swear you cannot post anything here without someone jumping all over you.  i mean what gives ?  what do you get out of this ?  i just don't get it.  did i harm you in a past life ?  and you aren't the only one.  the other article i posted here is in the mobileham group about the radio installation i am doing, and i get the same cynical mean spirited junk from someone i assume is an extra.  at least he seems to be trying to make a point, but he too used this same mean spirited tone of voice.  i have absolutely no idea why i am even on this site.  my initial excitement about it has turned into just .. i don't even know, i just don't like you.  and i don't like many of the other people here either to be honest, and i don't mind saying so at this point.  since day 1 which was just weeks ago i have had nothing but bad vibes from amateur radio people.  the very first ones i met, the very first, were the people who gave me my tests.  and you know one of them wouldn't even talk to me, i had to go outside the room and ask him to come and sign the paper showing i had passed the three tests.  i mean what ... did he think i was undeserving ?  was he p*ssed off that the test process isn't harder ?  did he just not like me ?  is a just a jerk ?  are all amateur radio people just jerks ?  i swear i don't get it.  and i've tried all kinds of tactics on this site, i've tried to be serious, i've tried funny, i've tried to just be open and honest, engaging, i've tried to strike up the most innocent conversations about topics ... i give up.  KEEP YOUR STUPID SITE.  and KEEP YOUR STUPID HOBBY TOO.  you know my license is just as good as anyone else's as far as the FCC is concerned and once i pass the CW test i have just as much rights to HF as you or anybody else ... so what do i need you for, to be mean to me ?  you can keep your mean stuff, i'm through with it.  i'll be on the radio but i'm avoiding you guys as much as i can at this point, you are the unfriendliest bunch i've ever talked to ... even worse than usenet.  and the worst of it is i've gotten hurt about it and i know you guys are probably just laughing because you upset someone, well keep smiling, you're right, you did.
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KG4RUL
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Posts: 2742


WWW

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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2005, 05:11:17 AM »

You propose doing something that is blatantly illegal and come here for validation.  Then, when you don't get that, you whine that you are being picked on.

Don't go away mad!  Just go away!

Dennis KG4RUL
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N3ZKP
Member

Posts: 2008




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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2005, 06:32:20 AM »

Sir:

All I was doing was pointing out the remarkable similiarity between two poster's names and writing styles. If this makes you upset, that's your problem.

73,

Lon - N3ZKP
Baltimore, Maryland
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KD4YOR
Member

Posts: 2




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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2005, 06:24:36 PM »

Sailorman,
I agree the 706 modified will serve you beter on a crusing sailboat than the 802. The mian diferences are the 802 is chanelized and rated for 150w continuous. I don't believe there is any special sealing done to it. The 706 if mounted in the cabin will serve you well for many years. My FT100 has been on a boat for 4 years with out a problem. As far leagalities of using a modified Amateur radio on the marine SSB freques. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see a problem if you are in International waters. Put the extra cash in your crusing kitty.

Pat
kd4yor
S/Y Never Monday
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K9FV
Member

Posts: 480




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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2006, 10:57:04 AM »

I don't think the sailorman was trying to say he is different posters - I "think" he has acknowledged in the past they are the same, had some problems with logging in or somthing.  I don't remember the details.

Sailorman, remember, the "sour grapes" posters are waaay fewer than the helpful posters - just seem to be more 'cause they make so much noise.  Sad.  Seems like you are preparing for the code test and to upgrade to a general - am I correct that I remember your posts from the CW forum?

Now to your questions.  I've been a liveaboard for over 25 yrs now on a 40ft sailboat. I've had ham radios on board for most of that time.  Never really had any problems with corrision or other problems with any of the electronics I've had on board - TV, VCR, computers (both desktop and notebook, radios, ham or otherwise.  Of course they stay down below away from the spray.  Only handheld VHF is used topsides....  OR the mic on an extended cable for the main marine VHF radio.

The mod'd 706 (or any other ham radio) is NOT legal to use on the  marine bands - execpt in an emergency situation.  It just is not approved by the FCC to use in that manner.  Can you get away with doing it?  Sure, I don't think I've ever heard of a case were a sailor got caught, but it still is NOT legal.  I doubt anyone can tell from the other end what rig you are using.

Hang in there - fair winds and following seas,

ken H.

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KC2MMI
Member

Posts: 620




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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2006, 10:20:14 AM »

AFAIK there is only one radio that will legally let you kill both of these birds with one stone.

The ICOM IC-M802.

It is sold by ICOM as legal for both Marine SSB *and* ham use. It's also fairly new on the market, maybe a year old.

Before this, sailors had a choice of illegally using a ham radio on the Marine SSB bands, or illegally modding a marine SSB (i.e. the ICOM 710s) for use on the ham bands.

Everything that I've heard from all sailing sources for over a decade has said that using the older ICOMs illegally is common and is not prosecuted--as long as the user is smart enough not to be flagrant about it, to operate from the high seas as opposed to in a US port, and most of all to keep their signal clean enough so that no one complains about it.

Last year one eham member claimed that they knew of the FCC actually giving out at least one violation for such a use, but that's one person making one claim against all the others over all the years.

Personally, I'd rather do it legally and not worry, but since bluewater sailors often have constraints on space and budget...You do what you do.

In the 80's commercial fishing fleets often used the Drake TR7 and similar ham radios, illegally, as marine SSBs. Since the Drake was a milspec radio co-incidentally built for military and embassy use...again, if the signal is clean and you give no one a reason to complain...You just have to be aware of what you are getting into.

Also realize that in many countries, illegal use of a radio IN their waters may result in a much stiffer penalty than the one the FCC would give you. The new ICOM deals with all of this. Finally!
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SAILOR_MAN
Member

Posts: 2




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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2006, 12:55:16 PM »

I have been ill and have only got back on-line. First of all I thank everyone for their input during the holiday season. I would like to clarify a few things.

1. In Canada the requirement for Morse Code is no longer needed for the use of the HF frequencies if you recceive a passing grade of over 80% - I received 100%.

2. I was not and am not proposing to modify a 706MKIIG illegally so that I can use the marine bands. I knew the M802 could legally operate on both the SSB and marine bands, but I was conccerned about the lack of the  6 meter, 2 meter and 70cm ham bands and wondered if their importance meant that I sould buy a 706MKIIg as well as a used SSB. One person answered that part of the question and said if I really needed the VHF bands I could buy a handheld- thank you.

3. I am not the same person as the other person (SAIL-AWAY if I remember),  and I apologize if this has caused anyone confusion. I also apologize for his/her vitriolic tirade and hate to have that outburst as part of this thread (it is unpleasant).

In the meantime I have disccovered that to have the marine SSB bands is very important on the ocean, perhaps more so than the ham bands, so I have elected to purchase the 802 despite the cost, and also a VHF ham handheld.

Thanks.
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KB1HTW
Member

Posts: 48




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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2006, 06:55:04 PM »

SailorMan,

There is another radio that is type-accepted in the US for both Amateur and Marine SSB: the SGC-2020 Powertalk. Check it out at http://www.sgcworld.com/2000ProductPage.html"

It's not as flexible as the 706 (limited to HF - 1.8-30MHz), but it matches the M802 in output power (150W). At $2195 US list, it's in the same range as the M802...

All else being equal, as a sailor with a non-ham wife that owns an IC-706Mk2G in the home shack - when we purchase our new cruising boat this spring, I'll probably buy the M802 as our main SSB. One-touch email would be nice. I'll install the 706 as a backup and for use on 6m/2m/70cm. Now we'll just have to defend the use of Winlink to all the anti-Winlink folks out there ;-)

If you haven't made your purchase yet, check out HF Radio on Board at http://www.hfradio.com/Information/radioemail.html. They'll sell you the whole setup: M802, Pactor modem, tuner, all cables, RF grounding plate, software, plus open the 802 for ham use and perform the Pactor III firmware upgrade, and finally bench test the whole thing for $4490 US. Pricy, but they also hold your hand during the install process.

I've talked to these guys at the Atlantic City Strictly Sail boat show a while back - seem to be a straight up, first class operation.
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