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Author Topic: Icom 706 MKII for Aircraft  (Read 2122 times)
PYLOT
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Posts: 11




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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2008, 04:19:22 PM »

Excellent, I'll use 87.145 as my exemption.

 (c) The equipment listed below is exempted from certification. The operation of transmitters which have not been certificated must not result in harmful interference due to the failure of those transmitters to comply with technical standards of this subpart.

(1) Flight test station transmitters for limited periods where justified.

                  Thanks!
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W7SMJ
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Posts: 120




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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2008, 04:30:48 PM »

Hi Dwanne,

Researching this a little more I see that a sat phone really isn't practical.  If you're going to file IFR you must have an HF transceiver.

Unfortunately to be legal you would have to have a certified HF transceiver, which I'm sure you're aware is why they run $30K - $40K.  The reason is in 87.18  Station license required where it states:

"(a) Except as noted in paragraph (b) of this section, stations in the aviation service must be licensed by the FCC either individually or by fleet.

    (b) An aircraft station is licensed by rule and does not need an individual license issued by the FCC if the aircraft station is not required by statute, treaty, or agreement to which the United States is signatory to carry a radio, and the aircraft station does __not make international flights__ or communications. Even though an individual license is not required, an aircraft station licensed by rule must be operated in accordance with all applicable operating requirements,
procedures, and technical specifications found in this part."

Unfortunately since the 706 isn't certified for aviation service the FCC won't grant a station license.

I found an example 337 for a 706 installation on the web where the 706 was listed as a "receiver" and was placarded for "Day VFR Use Only".  Clearly this wasn't why it was installed...

In any case, if you move forward with this get some local help.

Good luck,
Scott
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N0IU
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Posts: 1246


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« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2008, 02:43:35 AM »

PYLOT wrote, "Excellent, I'll use 87.145 as my exemption.

(c) The equipment listed below is exempted from certification. The operation of transmitters which have not been certificated must not result in harmful interference due to the failure of those transmitters to comply with technical standards of this subpart."

Excellent point Mr. Pylot, but where is you assurance that a butchered 706 will not result in harmful interference? Think about it... there has to be a reason that an FAA approved HF radio costs $39,000 more than a 706!

I agree with the others when they say that if you want someone to help you with your problem, you might be better off going to an aviation message board and not an amateur radio board.

Scott N0IU
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KG4RUL
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Posts: 2685


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« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2008, 04:41:09 AM »

Meet PYLOT!
Real Name:
Dwanne

Photo:
No photo available.

Email address:
Email address not available.

-----------------

This basically tells it all!
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NXET
Member

Posts: 1




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« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2008, 08:36:34 PM »

 W3LK on January 7, 2008       
<< The fact that one federal agency, FAA, regularly >approves these installations with full knowledge of how >they are being used indicates that this application >might not be as illegal as you postulate.>>

I agree.  I put several icom 706's in aircraft to use on hf for crossing the big ponds.  The FAA/FCC approve them on a daily basis.  (FAA Uses the 337 form and the FCC uses the 505 form)

Now as to the use of the 706 on the VHF bands 118-136.. I don't think their you will stand a chance.  Although we have used ours when the main radios went south.

Of course aero mobile on the ham bands is allowed too... so your good to go their also.

The mod that icom does for us and the CAP/MARS groups is to take out the one diode only which opens the radio up to all bands... not good talking on the law enforcement bands though... or any other that is outside the known and used bands for aircraft or ham.

As to the 706 stability vs the old Bendix, sinclair or sunairs... its heads and tails above them with their tube type drifty vfo's.  If the 706 wasn't good the FAA wouldn't approve the form 337.

Now if you want the best radio you can get... try wolfburg out of canada they will work from the crack of dawn to DC but are very expensive

We have now seen some of the Yeasu's being replaced by icoms (military grade field/rack aircraft radios.

Don't let some of these "experts" dampen your desires.  Half of them can't find their car keys, the other half can't drive.   What do they know?  Take the 706 along as backup.  Most of the glider boys now are using ham 2-220-440 radios to talk to ground crews too.  Installed right in the plane with the old form 337)

  The FAR's clearly state that you as pilot in command can and are required to do anything to ensure a safe flight.  this includes commucations in event of system failure

Icom makes a nifty AM aircraft band hand held but its pretty weak compaired to the 706 on a nice AC antenna.

I fly with mine almost every other day and its approved  and install perminate it in the plane by the mechanic, signed off by the IA and stamped and OK'ed by the FAA ---  

The FCC even issued a HF radio radio license permit for the plane because it now has HF long range abilities  
Call sign is the aircrafts N number.   It is surprising how many field (both civilian and military ) have HF capabilites.
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PYLOT
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Posts: 11




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« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2008, 01:15:56 PM »

Thanks NXET, I knew there was someone around here who had their facts straight and was willing to help. Many thanks also to the "40 year industry expert" and others for the unsolicited and incorrect legal advice. Your ignorance motivated be to contact the FCC regional counsel to verify what I was planning to do was legal. Laughing
my tail off!
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W7SMJ
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Posts: 120




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« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2008, 08:21:20 PM »

LOL, Boy, you sure put us in our place Dwanne!

Just to be clear, I don't care one way or the other if anyone mods a 706 to use for aviation purposes.  But I'm not about to advise someone I don't know (who provides nothing other than a first name) about how to do something potentially illegal and open myself up to liability should an unfortunate incident occur.

I don't doubt that using a modded 706 is common practice among ferry pilots and probably performs adequately in such service.

I think modding a 706 is perfectly legal.  I think installing it in an aircraft is perfectly legal.  I think using the 706 for amateur aeronautical mobile operations is perfectly legal too.  Using the 706 to provide position reports on an IFR flight plan I'm not so sure about.

Having said that, I am curious what loopholes you and/or Sam (NXET) believe you have discovered in the FAA & FCC regs to allow this operation.  As I mentioned in a previous post, the only 337 I was able to find on the internet for installation of a 706 was for amateur aeronautical mobile operations.

In the spirit of helping out the next pilot looking for the info, would you mind posting the necessary steps that need to be taken to legally use the 706 for position reports on an IFR flight plan?

Thanks,
Scott
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W3LK
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Posts: 5644




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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2008, 07:12:19 AM »

<< Your ignorance motivated be to contact the FCC regional counsel to verify what I was planning to do was legal.>>

I don't believe for a single moment that anyone at the FCC told you it was legal to use a modified 706 on VHF Airband. The FCC has been busting hang gliders and parasailers for years for using modified amateur 2m HT on VHF Airband.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
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A smoking section in a restaurant makes as much sense as a peeing section in a swimming pool.
PYLOT
Member

Posts: 11




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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2008, 12:13:51 PM »

Yeah, I know it makes a lot more sense to modify a 2 meter HT for use on airband than it does to simply buy a 300 dollar handheld airband.
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KE3HO
Member

Posts: 235




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« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2008, 11:24:06 AM »

Your stated purpose for use of the radio:

"I have procured an ICOM 706-MKII for use as a temporary HF and backup VHF for aircraft deliveries."

This operation is not exempted by 87.145(c)(1). This operation does NOT fall into the category of "Flight test station transmitters". Not by a long shot.

From 87..5 Definitions:

Flight test aircraft station. An aircraft station used in the testing of aircraft or their major components.

Making aircraft deliveries is a long way from being a test pilot.
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2760




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« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2008, 04:45:22 PM »

"Yeah, I know it makes a lot more sense to modify a 2 meter HT for use on airband than it does to simply buy a 300 dollar handheld airband."

So cost trumps legality?  Right.

Radios are expensive.  Boo hoo. So are Federal fines.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
WA9SVD
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Posts: 2201




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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2008, 09:21:36 PM »

Yep.  The FCC "NAL" for four days operation can cost up to $4000 more than a certified radio.
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KC5JK
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« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2008, 03:12:05 PM »

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will jump at the chance to appoint themselves unpaid policemen.
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KC5JK
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« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2009, 07:39:35 AM »

See if you can contact 9K2AI.  He is trying to do the same thing.  Beware mods for European or other versions that use boards different from yours.
Now back to your regularly scheduled berating from the self appointed radio police.
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WW5AA
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Posts: 2088




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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2009, 07:58:17 AM »

"An aviation radio and its installation must be certified for enroute navigation" That means: TSO-C129 certified Type Certificate, Supplemental Type Certificate, or Form 337 just like any other modification temporary or permanent. That means your installation would have to be installed by an A&P and approved by the FAA and have appropriate justification on the Form 337 (similar acft, etc.) and that might mean getting a "First Time Air Worthiness Approval" (MUCH testing) depending on the radio and the airplane and if it's been done/approved before. The use of amateur radio gear for amatuer radio use has been approved many times and approval (337) if properly done is routine in aircraft under 12,500 pounds. The key requirements for IFR flight is that “ALL” equipment must be TSO certified. Period…period..period…

73 de Lindy
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