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Author Topic: What now  (Read 889 times)
KC5HMC
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Posts: 90




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« on: December 15, 2008, 04:54:09 AM »

What have some of you guys ( and Ladies ) done when you have narrowed down the sounce of RFI in a place of business how do you approch them to try to get it resolved? I am thinking that it could be a bit of a touchy thing and you don't want to make them mad and nothing gets done.



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WB2WIK
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2008, 01:51:49 PM »

Show up with an FCC agent and a Federal Marshall.  Best if the Marshall has a weapon drawn.

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NA6M
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2008, 09:06:21 PM »

Good luck with that...

---
WB2WIK Said:

Show up with an FCC agent and a Federal Marshall. Best if the Marshall has a weapon drawn.
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WB4BYQ
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2008, 06:17:46 AM »

I would call the ARRL, speak to Ed Hare if possibe.
Have some Ferrite cores of the FT-240-77, or type 6 from palomar.  I.C.E., Industrial Communication Engineers sell all kinds of RFI supression devices, and they are hams as well.  I have talked to them as well.  I.C.E. work in industrial areas.  Carry a hf receiver with you to have to find the source.  Think about fox hunting, using small antennas, some way to attenuate the signal.  Have another ham go with you, that way you are not alone, be well dressed, nice, and explain you problem, etc.  God Speed in solving your problem.
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2008, 01:48:12 PM »

>RE: What now       Reply
by NA6M on December 16, 2008    Mail this to a friend!
Good luck with that...

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WB2WIK Said:

Show up with an FCC agent and a Federal Marshall. Best if the Marshall has a weapon drawn.<

::I was joking.

But only partly.  If a "company" (like a manufacturing plant) has stuff radiating obnoxious and unlawful RFI that bothers me, I don't think my dropping by and asking them to do something about it would work well.

Now that the FCC seems to have ZERO enforcement, the barnyard will stink even more badly than ever before.  There's no incentive for anyone to follow rules or be concerned about violations.

WB2WIK/6
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K2YO
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2008, 04:54:58 PM »

What type of business are they?

That's important for mulitple reasons. They may be legitimately be creating rf noise.

If they are a small business they may be more willing to work with you than say General Motors.

If they are rentors, then you can get the landlord involved. Keep in mind the landlord may decide they generate more rent income than you and ask you to leave.

Are you near by in a home or business?

If it's a business near your home, you may have zoning laws that can help you.

Bernie
K2YO
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N3OX
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2008, 10:13:04 PM »

"But only partly. If a "company" (like a manufacturing plant) has stuff radiating obnoxious and unlawful RFI that bothers me, I don't think my dropping by and asking them to do something about it would work well. "

Unfortunately, that's where you need to start... though probably not dropping by.

Mike Gruber, W1MG at the ARRL had this to say about my problems with elevator RFI in a nearby apartment complex:

- - - - - - -

"Dan,

 

There really is only one place to start with a situation like this and that is the operator of the offending device.  Under FCC Part 15 rules, the operator is responsible for correcting harmful interference to a licensed radio service.  Perhaps sending the building’s management a letter would be a good place to start.  You could always ask to meet with them to explain the problem further."

- - - - - -

And, unfortunately enough, he's right.  You can't make a federal case out of something you haven't even mentioned to those who have the chance to voluntarily correct the situation.

I know how you feel.  I have absolutely no expectation that a letter to the management will do anything at all.  They won't get anyone to look at it, because they won't even know who to call.  They won't do anything about it even if I found the problem, because it would cost them a bunch of money, and my experience with big apartment management companies in Prince Georges County is that they're not exactly interested in infrastructure improvements even for paying residents ;-)

However, if I had to deal with it forever, rather than worrying about a temporary situation in my rented house, I would start the process by sending a nice, polite letter to management (maybe return receipt requested) and keeping a copy in my files.  When I received no response within, say, 30 to 60 business days, I would do the same thing again with a letter that said "I've received no response to my prior letter," and politely explain the situation again.

Then I've got clear evidence that they're not cooperating, and I can go to someone who can help me escalate the situation.

I've decided I'm not going to bother.  It'll take months for me just to show that they're uncooperative, and even if they say "Hey, we're sorry, ham radio guy!  We'll fix this right away," they're going to think twice when they see the quote for the shielded three phase cable with symmetric grounds that they should have installed on the damn variable frequency drives in the first place.

However, in the end, they HAVE to fix it, and I'm pretty confident I could get help from the ARRL to put some pressure on the FCC to put pressure on the apartment complex, if I had it in me to start the battle.

But I can't see it taking less than a year or so, and I plan to be N3OX, Ph.D.  by then and on the way out of here, so ... what's the point?

- - - - - -

However, if it were a *small* business, I'd promptly send them a polite letter.   You never know until you ask if your letter actually reaches someone who has some authority to make some decision.  

That's what I worry about starting things with a giant apartment management company who controls tens of thousands of units around the DC Metro area.  I'll be forever sending letters to people who don't understand the problem and who don't care.

The coffee shop who just needs a few ferrites on their dishwashing machine might be more amenable to helping you with the problem, you know...

So what kind of problem are you having?

73
Dan



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73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
KC5HMC
Member

Posts: 90




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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2008, 08:02:31 AM »

Sorry for the no reply thing, I have been working very long hours.
Thanks for all the replies!!
It is a small business that sells truck accessories so that will make things a little easier.

Merry Christmas
Herb KC5HMC
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2008, 03:56:35 AM »

IF the problem is their business sign or any other vital to business item forget it.  No busines will turn off their business sign.  


SOMETIMES you lose.
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N3OX
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2008, 08:12:49 PM »

"No busines will turn off their business sign. "

No but they might work with you to do something else to cut the noise.

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73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
KC5HMC
Member

Posts: 90




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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 07:24:36 AM »

I will have to go back be sure what type of sign they have, but I think it is a bill board type. I also tested to see if the noise was there durring the day and it is. Most places turn the sign off when it is light outside. I am alsmost thinking it's a security system, but more looking will tell or sure. I will try to get a recorging and a bandwidth of it. So far I have only been on 3860 kc. This is more un than aggravating!
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