Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Flex 6400M vs. Icom 7610 ?  (Read 16140 times)
GM1FLQ
Member

Posts: 781




Ignore
« Reply #105 on: September 12, 2017, 05:17:36 AM »

Yes, they should just go out of business, along with Elecraft.
They can make radios in China without needing any deposits........

..........and do many other things that will, at best,  not necessarily have your interests at heart.  Wink..........
Logged
KA4DPO
Member

Posts: 707




Ignore
« Reply #106 on: September 12, 2017, 07:15:07 AM »


Quote
No, no one (including me) wants Flexradio to go out of business. They need to make radios that the average ham actually wants to buy. For Instance SDR radios with knobs at at a value packed price.. And they need to change some of their anti-customer business practices. Mostly the Flexradio Company just needs an attitude adjustment.

Stan K9IUQ

That was my take on it Stan, the attitude of the company rep was just all wrong.  That is how you drive customers away.

John.

I really think these chip sets used in Flex's newer 6400/6600 radio's are old hat compared to what is used in there commercial built radio's, the amateur market gets the left over spouge from there commercial side, the main delay is getting the production run together with all the build of materials since everything is on that main circuit board. What the Flex rep was really trying to say is if everyone canceled there orders they would have zero customers to buy there radio's and therefore fold. Amateur radio to Flex is another product line to them like Icom who really only basis 20-25% of there sales to Amateur radio gear, the rest is Marine radio, Avionics and two way radio. Companies like Yaesu and Kenwood are the ones hurting in this very limited marketplace and I mean it is very small by today's standards.

If they actually need customer funding to support the amateur operation then the commercial side must operate at a very low margin.  In fact, the entire company must be low margin.  Unless they are subbing out doing sub assembly for someone else then they are fighting an uphill battle because there are more than a few industry giants, companies that don't make ham radio equipment, who get the big contracts and little guys may only get a few crumbs.  As for the chip sets, I don't think the commercial gear would be much different in terms of the basic technology.  Analog Devices is the leader in fast A/D technology, their to of the line chips ar just under $1400.00 each in quantities of 1000 or more; http://www.analog.com/en/products/analog-to-digital-converters/high-speed-ad-10msps/ad9208.html#product-overview

I seriously doubt that Flex has a contract for a thousand radios or even five hundred radios for that matter so the cost of these chips is much higher in smaller quantities.  That explains why their amateur gear is so expensive, the chips are the cost driver, the rest of the stuff is pretty cheap by comparison.   Companies like Icom and Kenwood can afford to buy the chips in high quantities since they have very large commercial orders.  That keeps the price of their radios down, how do you think they were able to build the 7300 so well and still make a whopping profit? 

Bottom line is that Flex is a small fish in very big pond.  Giving potential customers attitude is a suicidal business practice for any company let alone a small fry that is trying to stay afloat.
Logged
N2DTS
Member

Posts: 686




Ignore
« Reply #107 on: September 12, 2017, 04:42:20 PM »

I think Flex has about 18 people working for it and the owner lives in a very modest house.
They are a very small company.
Logged
GM1FLQ
Member

Posts: 781




Ignore
« Reply #108 on: September 12, 2017, 10:23:38 PM »

I think Flex has about 18 people working for it and the owner lives in a very modest house.
They are a very small company.

Could be said that anyone that doesn't live in a castle/palace lives in a very modest house.  Wink
Logged
N0YXB
Member

Posts: 1051




Ignore
« Reply #109 on: September 14, 2017, 06:54:03 AM »

I think Flex has about 18 people working for it and the owner lives in a very modest house.
They are a very small company.

Interesting, best of luck to Flex.
Logged
N2DTS
Member

Posts: 686




Ignore
« Reply #110 on: September 14, 2017, 08:22:29 AM »

I doubt they do it for the money.
I doubt they make a huge amount of money.
They don't sell stock, and are not part of a huge corporation.

Nor is Elecraft, and I think it would be lucky if they make enough money to put the kids through collage and have good health insurance.

Don't put them in with Icom, Kenwood, Sony and so on....
Logged
KE2TR
Member

Posts: 563




Ignore
« Reply #111 on: September 18, 2017, 06:12:24 PM »

Aside from all the BS talk on these forums as far as what you all think Flex is doing as a company has anyone really looked at there commercial product line. It is mostly all receivers design for many different arrays of receiving technology, remote accesses plus able to cover vast frequency ranges. These radio's are not a hobbyist toy they are specific multi channel/frequency mode devises and what they design for there commercial customers first as far as technology dribbles down to there amateur market radio's. I don't really know there exact size but there amateur market might just have a lower employee count then there commercial side. The good thing is that when they do introduce a new product these technologies are proven way before they hit the streets, maybe some firmware hick ups but if you think that there deposits on these newer radio's are in any way helping them buy the components for the build of materials you got to believe in the Easter bunny. What these deposits are doing is giving them a very close count on what they need to purchase as far as component for the first of second production run, that my friend is smart manufacturing and business.
As far as Elacraft they hit the ground with fairly cheap and basic products in semi kit form, nothing like Heath Kit did back in the day. They captured the low power go anywhere qrp market and grew into the add and play 100w radio, small size and good performance arena. They then add assessors to there lines and becam a small but player in the amateur market. Although they haven't fully entered the full sdr market but just kind of made the KX3 a sort of almost sdr but there K3S is still a superhet down conversion box.
Flex is the first American company who has taken on the top tier of sherwoods RX list and placed there radio's 6700 at the top, now they are looking on bringing out two new radios that will more than likely join the 6700 at the top of that list at a very affordable price. For a small company that is excellent and wish them well. They are bringing sdr to the masses.
Logged
VE3WGO
Member

Posts: 113




Ignore
« Reply #112 on: Yesterday at 08:28:41 PM »

does anybody have updates on product release dates for the Flex 6400/6600 or Icom IC-7610?

73, Ed VE3WGO
Logged
N6YFM
Member

Posts: 457




Ignore
« Reply #113 on: Yesterday at 10:32:23 PM »

does anybody have updates on product release dates for the Flex 6400/6600 or Icom IC-7610?

73, Ed VE3WGO

I hung around the Flex booth at HamCon in Torrance, CA last weekend.  Asked a lot of very probing questions to
different staff, and played with the new radios a bit.   They have sold their entire first production run through January
or February.  And there was lots of well-to-do foot traffic placing more paid orders for beyond that.

Several of their employees were open with me about the deposits and the fear or rumor of cash flow issues.
They claimed it is basically what the previous post said;  Since they are a small company, it would be foolish to
pay for 10,000 orders of parts if they only get, for example, 3,000 initial orders.   The serious deposits show them
who is really likely to go ahead and take the purchase of the radio, hence it helps them with forecasting component
purchases and the size of each production run.   In addition, they were quite open about the fact that to help mitigate
problems of dying from cash flow starvation while growing too quickly, they basically worked out a "share the risk/burden/profit"
deal with their contract manufacturer, which takes a large part of the cash flow risk off of Flex.
They were quite excited about the sales growth they have seen for the last several months.

As far as Icom, while they backed out of this particular show (claiming cost for booth and hotel rooms), you all
know that the radio is very close to release since the final user manual has been posted in Japan on the public site.

Neal
Logged
KA4DPO
Member

Posts: 707




Ignore
« Reply #114 on: Today at 07:13:28 AM »

does anybody have updates on product release dates for the Flex 6400/6600 or Icom IC-7610?

73, Ed VE3WGO

I hung around the Flex booth at HamCon in Torrance, CA last weekend.  Asked a lot of very probing questions to
different staff, and played with the new radios a bit.   They have sold their entire first production run through January
or February.  And there was lots of well-to-do foot traffic placing more paid orders for beyond that.

Several of their employees were open with me about the deposits and the fear or rumor of cash flow issues.
They claimed it is basically what the previous post said;  Since they are a small company, it would be foolish to
pay for 10,000 orders of parts if they only get, for example, 3,000 initial orders.   The serious deposits show them
who is really likely to go ahead and take the purchase of the radio, hence it helps them with forecasting component
purchases and the size of each production run.   In addition, they were quite open about the fact that to help mitigate
problems of dying from cash flow starvation while growing too quickly, they basically worked out a "share the risk/burden/profit"
deal with their contract manufacturer, which takes a large part of the cash flow risk off of Flex.
They were quite excited about the sales growth they have seen for the last several months.

As far as Icom, while they backed out of this particular show (claiming cost for booth and hotel rooms), you all
know that the radio is very close to release since the final user manual has been posted in Japan on the public site.

Neal

Thanks Neal, that was an excellent report.  It is tough to keep a small company in the black, especially in a market like amateur radio.  Looking forward to seeing what they come out with but I have to wonder if they have sold out the first run, if their production will ramp up based on projected interest.

As for Icom, I am pretty certain they could afford the booth and hotel if it was important to them.  They are close enough to the release date now that dog and pony shows won't have much impact on sales.   I think their attitude at this point is why spend the money?
Logged
VE3WGO
Member

Posts: 113




Ignore
« Reply #115 on: Today at 10:32:04 AM »


..... they basically worked out a "share the risk/burden/profit"
deal with their contract manufacturer, which takes a large part of the cash flow risk off of Flex. ......

Neal

Thanks for the update Neal. 

I was unaware that Flex doesn't make their own radios, but uses a contract manufacturer to do that.  I wonder if it's located in the USA or is it offshore (which might explain why this new generation of radios seems to be so cost competitive with the rest of the industry) ?

73, Ed VE3WGO
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!