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Author Topic: Passing Copper 'tape' through Cinder Block/Bricks?  (Read 1268 times)
DALFOLLO
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Posts: 26




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« on: May 25, 2008, 12:11:20 AM »

I am looking at ways to pass my 1.5" or 2" copper ribbon from the SPGD to the ground rod outside, through cinder block and brick. I have a masonary drill, and a 1/4" and 1/2" long masonary bit.

Holes take some time, but get done.

Could I drill a straight hole, then use threaded rod to pass through the hole....then connect to the ends of the threaded rods with stacked nuts?

Can I fold it in half? I am not looking forward to trying to get several holes in a single row, to allow for the entire flashing to be passed through.

I have some bundles of woven grounding strap....is that as effetive? I might just be able to get that through a 1/2" hole.

Thanks for any feedback.

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N1QOQ
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Posts: 188




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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2008, 10:24:49 AM »

My personal opinion would be any deviation from your copper would negate the purpose of using it. Think of the reason you used copper flashing to begin with. About the only thing would be to use a piece of buss bar the same width to pass through the foundation. The buss bar would give you a little more mechanicle stregth. Other than that go straight through.
73 Paul
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K9KJM
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Posts: 2416




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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 12:50:51 AM »

Very simple to drill through a concrete block wall to run the copper strap:  Drill a series of holes with the small drill bit (1/4") Horizontal, Then take a small chisel and chip out the mortar between the holes.  Measure where this is inside the building so it matches up with the outside line of holes and do the same thing. Push the copper strap through, And seal up with silicone sealer.
(Drilling through the horizontal mortar joint is LOTS easier than trying to drill through the concrete block itself) Trying to drill all the way through a concrete block wall at the mortar joint is kind of tough to do, Drilling into the wall from outside, and then again into the wall inside works well.
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DALFOLLO
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Posts: 26




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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2008, 07:23:21 AM »

Thanks for the feedback...I was hoping to not have to create the wide hole....but I also want to do it right.

My wall, all told is ~16" thick!

What if I didn't use 1.5" copper flashing, and instead used the woven/braided copper strap? What is the guideline for the size of the braided copper between the first outside ground bar, and the SPGD inside the shack?

BTW, what is the standard size copper flashing between the outside ground and the SPGD?

Thanks.
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K9KJM
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Posts: 2416




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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2008, 11:58:33 PM »

16 inches wide! Wow!

Another good way to get the copper flashing indoors is to install a 4 inch dryer vent, (Available at home supply stores for about 5 bucks)  That will be plenty big enough for lots of coax runs, Rotor wires, AND your wide copper ground strap.

Any type of Braid is to be avoided for grounding, Unless really needed to be braided, Like to ground a steel door to a steel door frame (Where constant movement is needed) Stick with the flat copper strap, OR

Another possible way to get through the wall would be to just drill a larger hole to run a short section of copper tube through. A 3/4 inch diameter copper tube would have surface area about equal to your flat strap.
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WA7NCL
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2008, 08:16:42 AM »

Why are you doing this?  If you have an RF common mode problem, you need to fix your antenna (balance it) or add a balun or line isolator to your feed system.

A ground for lightning protection should be outside, and near the antenna.  Otherwise you are "inviting it into your house".

There are a lot of guys on this board who are experts at lightning protection.  Search the old posts.

You don't need an "RF" ground for a properly designed antenna system.  The third prong of the outlet is designed to provide the safety ground.
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K9KJM
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2008, 11:01:10 PM »

All commercial tower sites have the "single point" ground panel that lightning arrestors are grounded to just INSIDE the building, Not outside.  My own ham stations also have the ground just inside, On which I also mount my coax switches.  It would be pretty difficult to operate with the coax swithes properly grounded outside the building......

This ground is in addition to (And bonded to) the tower or mast ground that would take the majority of a direct lightning strike energy.
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K9KJM
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2008, 11:08:32 PM »

I agree with WA7NCL that if you have an RF problem in the shack, That needs to be addressed at the antenna, Not covered up by grounding.........

My take on your grounding was from a lightning protection standpoint.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 04:14:52 AM »

"All commercial tower sites have the "single point" ground panel that lightning arrestors are grounded to just INSIDE the building, Not outside."

There are several things that actually determine that--not ALL installations are the same.  Some have the ground point panel as a PART OF the building wall, some are just outside the wall of the building.  The hardline shields are grounded at the point they leave the tower.  Everything is grounded to the towers comprehensive ground system--some of which are done by a well drilling company and are sunk deep into the earth.

The point is--every installation is different, the out buildings are different, and the requirements as determined by the site.  Not all "single point" grounding systems are done the same way.
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K9KJM
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2008, 12:56:20 AM »

The "Standard" for commercial tower sites is to ground the heliax shield to a copper ground block at the tower, Again ground the heliax shield to another copper ground block at the outside of the building,
AND again just inside the building where the lightning arrestors are installed.  
ALL commercial tower sites have been done this way for years now. (At least those installed by qualified construction companies.) Even if a site does not fully comply with the Motorola R56 guidlines, All that I have seen follow the same feedline grounding procedure.

The only thing "different" is that each site may require much different grounds. Some may get by with the standard 8 foot ground rods all exothermic welded to the ground wire, Some with close bedrock may require flat copper strap with ground enhancement material, Some sites may be best served with a drilled deep well, etc.

No matter what is used for the outdoor ground "system" The "Single Point" ground is the same for all.
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WX7K
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Posts: 45




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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 07:36:24 AM »

Hey, I just did the same thing.  If you do the math, the circumference of 3/4 inch copper pipe is about 2 inches.  I ran a piece of copper pipe through the wall and silver brazed the copper strap to both ends.  Works great.

Newell
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DALFOLLO
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Posts: 26




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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2009, 03:07:35 PM »

to clarify for anyone reading this post:

 - I am studying to be a ham, and am building out my ham shack.
 - Right now I am only listening to my TS-830, till I pass the Tech and General
 - One wall of my ham room is the exterior wall common with the following: Electrical service and outdoor breaker box (with one ground rod each, phone and cable connection (both grounded to the outdoor faucet)
 - About three feet from my SPG ( it is mounted on the wall inside) is a new ground rod i sunk (outside of course-call this the "Ham Ground Rod")
 - My SPG is tied to that ground rod via 2" x 035" Cu strap (or will be once it arrives); I have drilled a hole through the wall large enough that I shouldn't have to fold or curve the 2" strap
 - This "Ham Ground Rod" is now bonded (using 5/8" acorns and 4 guage Cu wire) to:
     - the outside breaker panel's ground rod (about 3' away), then the  
     - service ground(4' further away; ~7' from the Ham Ground Rod)
     - Also connected to the Ham Ground Rod, is a 4 guage CU wire to the copper faucet (5' away)(this bonds the Ham Ground Rod to the faucet with its telephone and cable ground) I have confirmed this faucet and pipe are copper and properly grounded as they emerge in the utility room inside the house

Because of information that I have read about poor/dry soil, I have sunk another ground rod as far as I could from the Ham Ground Rod (11'), and connected this with the Ham Ground Rod (4 guage). I have a unique space for ground rods, otherwise I would have sunk the ground rod 16' away.

I plan to improve my antenna from a random length (~70) to a 66' (leg) dipole, or G5RV.

HTH
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