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Author Topic: Long long wire loop antennas???  (Read 16595 times)
VE3VID
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Posts: 145




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« on: April 28, 2009, 10:41:01 PM »

Who has built a long wire horizontal loop antenna.  By long wire I mean I have enough #12 stranded insulated copper wire to make 4 or 5 wavelengths on 160m.  The station is on a meadow hillside - wide open.  I can pluck some tall red pines from the forrest and stand them up as supports of 50ft or so.

My big interests are the low bands 40/80/160.  I'm solar and generator powered, so 100w is all I can muster - so far.

Has anyone built such a beast?  Sould I be calculating for odd multiples of the lowest frequency? Any recommendations would be appreciated. It all goes up this summer.

Cheers........David
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KB3LFD
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Posts: 4




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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2009, 07:53:26 AM »

I have a 389foot horizontal loop with an sgc-235
matching unit at the antenna feed point. It works
well 160 to 10 meters. Originaly it was 319 feet
in a delta configuration but would not work on 160
meters even though the sgc manual said it would. I
think the reason was mostly that the delta shape was
too narrow in shape.
The loop now is more of a rough rectangular shape,
i dont think you have to make all the legs ( sides )
egual in length in order for the antenna to work well.
Main thing is to get the loop as high and in an open
shape as possible.
You may want to check an article in ARRL's Wire Antenna Classics, 1st edition by W0MHS Dave Fischer
from the Nov 1985 issue of QST. " The Loop Skywire".
Good luck..
73 KB3LFD
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W8JI
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Posts: 9304


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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2009, 05:05:16 AM »

Who has built a long wire horizontal loop antenna.  By long wire I mean I have enough #12 stranded insulated copper wire to make 4 or 5 wavelengths on 160m.  The station is on a meadow hillside - wide open.  I can pluck some tall red pines from the forrest and stand them up as supports of 50ft or so.

My big interests are the low bands 40/80/160.  I'm solar and generator powered, so 100w is all I can muster - so far.

Has anyone built such a beast?  Sould I be calculating for odd multiples of the lowest frequency? Any recommendations would be appreciated. It all goes up this summer.

Cheers........David

I don't want to discourage you from experimenting, but conductor loss and ground losses below the antenna become substantial when the conductor is very long and especially when it is not a long distance (in wavelengths) above lossy earth.

Why not use that room for a few dipoles for higher bands and a good inverted L antenna, and the rest for some receiving antennas? You actually would get out much better with an inverted L on 160 than any loop.

Tom

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K5END
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Posts: 1309




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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2009, 01:17:02 PM »

You actually would get out much better with an inverted L on 160 than any loop.

Tom

Tom,

The "L" is likely to have a lower take off angle as well; is that correct?
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N0AZZ
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Posts: 241




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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2009, 11:36:57 AM »

I have a 160m full wave loop up and it works very well, it does not have the low takeoff angle of my Hy Gain HY Tower with the 160m top kit.
I have a friend who has a setup of telephone poles with 2 full wave loops for 160m that he can switch between 1 or both together they are on the same poles and he tells me that he sees very little difference between 500' or a 1000' plus but we both are well pleased with the loops.

73 de Fred
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KI4VEO
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Posts: 166




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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2010, 10:02:25 PM »

A few years ago, after putting up a horizontal 160M full wave loop at 50 feet, or so, I got the brilliant idea that  2 wavelength might be better...it wasn't.  And it was outside the matching range of my Yaesu FC-102 (10 to 250 ohms) tuner on 80 and most of 40.  

However, it was great on 20M.  Not sure of the lobe pattern but I worked 6's and 7's with 150 watts on 20M with nary a problem.  Wasn't too shabby into Europe either.

After a few months I took it down and constructed an 80M inverted delta loop and feed it with homebrew 450 ohm feedline from a 4:1 remote current balun.

Sometime, this summer, I will revisit the 160M band but the antenna will be a bit more modest and probably of the inverted delta design favoring E/W.

Currently I have just the two 80M delta loops - one vertical and one horizontal.  The tuner "likes" 450 ohm feedline for the vertical and 600 ohm for the horizontal.
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N5YPJ
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Posts: 642




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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 10:43:33 AM »

W4RNL told us that a horizontal full wave loop radiates mainly straight up but a two wave length loop radiates a lower wave angle and might allow for some DX. IMO 160 is a band with different characteristics than 80 & above and most people who seem to work any distance have vertically polarized antennas, many use an inverted L. I wouldn't try making that loop any larger than 2 wavelengths on 160, just don't think that there is much to be gained by going bigger. 2 wavelengths for a horizontal loop close to the ground in question of wavelength should allow for an easier match on the fundamental frequency.
My personal experiences with a low dipole (35') on 160 haven't been great and I've written 160 operation off until I move to where an inverted L can be installed. In the meantime were it my antenna farm I would build a 160 meter loop which should give great results on 40 (for a wore antenna) and good results on 80.

73
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KI5SO
Member

Posts: 6




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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2010, 06:43:44 AM »

I had a low (10 feet off the ground) loop cut for 40 meters in my backyard.  I decided to disconnect the shield side and operate it as a long wire loop (end fed).  All I can say is wow, wow!  My results were great from 75 meters to 6 meters.  Yes, 75 meters.  And, of course 75 meters because 140 foot of wire end fed makes a great 75 meter antenna.  If I'd had the height, 160 meters would have worked great.  Of course, I was NVIS on 75 and 40 (like everyone else under 90 feet in the air--ha.)  Try that with you long loop and if your get rf run a counterpoise wire as long as you like 150 feet around a fence or down in the woods or around your house from the tuner.  Stick a 4:1 current balun or unun in front of your tuner (which really should be next to the window or at the antenna) and the tuner will tune with little trouble on any band.  Six meters will be a thrill.  I've really gotten into end fed antennas and they work great in the form of a loop.  Experiment with wire, it's fun!  Always practice safety precautions that children don't pick up your wire.

Mike Baggett ki5so
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N1YE
Member

Posts: 38




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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2010, 04:45:16 PM »

There are two horizontal loops on my property. Both are fed with open wire line to MFJ tuners. One tunes 160-10 and the other tunes 80-10. One is a delta shape and one is a square.  They are both up at around 50 feet. The square should have more gain than the delta because the square covers a larger area. In practice, though, there is little difference between the two.
(Why two?  Two hams live here and we often contest together. We needed our own)

The delta shaped one replaced two dipoles. I like these antennas because they match easily and they are much quieter than the dipoles.  The lower background noise enables me to hear soft signals that I could not hear on the dipoles.  Looking through the logs, most of my DX has been on the loops. In general, they perform better than any of the other wires that I have tried (and I've tried many over 38 years). 

It seems that the greatest difficulties in working the lower bands is being able to hear well. If one is blessed with lots of wire and real estate, he might consider some good Beverage antennas and an Inverted L with radials. If, however, one wants an all around, general purpose wire that is different from a standard dipole, horizontal loops work very well.

73
Gene
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KI4Z
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Posts: 37




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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 06:32:33 PM »

I to am interested in a ~1000' horizontal loop.  I had a ~530' loop (2 WL on 80M) and it was Killer on 40M, noticeably much better than a 1/2W dipole.  I worked many VK's on 40M with it with only 200W.  80M worked fine too, but I was mostly interested in 40M.  Originally I direct fed it with 50 ohm coax, then tried a 4:1 balun at the feed point.  I could match it either way without a tuner, but the balun did not contribute anything noticeable.  20M was okay, but rarely used it there since I also had a tri-bander beam.  Next time I'll try a 1000' loop with open wire to a tuner.

'73 KI4Z
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NA0AA
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Posts: 1043




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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 12:02:06 PM »

My experience with a 160 meter loop so far, tells me that once you get above several WL's, the efficiency suffers.  My loops performance seems to be best on 80 and 40, and drops off above 30 meters and really gets poor above 20 meters.  This suggests to me that a [2] 160 meter WL loop [man, that's huge!] would probably perform at it's best on 160 and 80 meters and get interesting above that.

The height of your loop might have some impact.

If you have specific directions in mind, consider a V-beam, rhombics, for receiving beverage.

The book "Low Band DX'ing" always gets good reviews here.



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KB2RHN
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2011, 06:38:03 AM »

i put up a 160 meter full wave wire loop antenna. works great. all bands will tune with internal tuner in the radio. getting great signal reports with 100 watts. not very efficient on 10 meters but does work. it is the best antenna i use for the higher bands.
kb2rhn jim
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N3JBH
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Posts: 2358




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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2011, 09:46:00 AM »

I made a loop once at my Forest county home it was just over 1500 feet long and like W8JI sort of stated it really was not that impressive. I took it down and made dipoles  that was better.   Jeff
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WA4FNG
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Posts: 162




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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2011, 04:12:34 AM »

I to am interested in a ~1000' horizontal loop.  I had a ~530' loop (2 WL on 80M) and it was Killer on 40M, noticeably much better than a 1/2W dipole.  I worked many VK's on 40M with it with only 200W...

I think it's confusing to people when you say you've "worked many VK's on 40m with 200W..." I can work VK's on 40m, no problem, with just 100W and dipoles. It doesn't really mean anything with regards to antenna performance. The only way to really experience an antenna is to put one up, use it, and learn from it.
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