Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: W1AW QRMing 80m PSK...  (Read 2995 times)
WB4IUY
Member

Posts: 136


WWW

Ignore
« on: January 14, 2010, 09:02:54 PM »

I see again tonight, as with most every night, W1AW is killing the psk sub-band on 80m with their CW "bulletins". They don't listen...they just fire up in the little 2khz wide PSK portion of 80m on top of everyone and send on and on and on, relentlessly. They came on tonight and filled the waterfall with a huge 1-way signal. I've sent multiple emails about this to them and various addresses, as have others I've worked on 80m psk, and they won't even answer nor acknowledge them.

They're as bad a K1MAN transmitting this junk....maybe worse. Does anyone know how to get their attention and have them to at least QSY their 80m QST magazine info rebroadcast QRM to the CW portion of the band?

I can't imagine this QRM from the league as being much more than _noise_ to most hams, performed so we know they're still there and actually doing something. I'm almost ashamed to admit I've been giving them dues every year since 1974...

Aggrivated with the ARRL,
Dave WB4IUY
www.wb4iuy.net
Logged
K1MMI
Member

Posts: 52




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2010, 12:41:09 AM »

On and off for 50 years I've heard W1AW code practice on 3.5815. I view it as a very worthwhile service.

Recently I've been listening to code practice on 3.5815 and found it annoying that psk stations would QRM W1AW.

Ed - K1MMI
Logged
WW5AA
Member

Posts: 2086




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2010, 04:55:31 AM »

Maybe you need better filtering...I work DX right next to W1AW without a problem. Seems everyone complains about one mode or the other these days.

73 de Lindy
Logged
TANAKASAN
Member

Posts: 933




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2010, 12:28:46 PM »

Why not put a report into the FCC?

Tanakasan
Logged
WB4IUY
Member

Posts: 136


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 04:31:42 PM »

Just like K1MAN and other "bulletin" stations, they come on the air and stomp everything around them out of existance without even listening to the frequency first. Just because they've done it for 50 years, doesn't give them the right to _take_ a frequency that is in use. That is as lame as an excuse as other "nets" that take claim to a frequnecy just because they've been doing it forever.

On top of that, 3.580-3.582 is the very segment that has been written into the digital bandplan and published by the league as being for PSK operations. It's not right, and if you or I did it every day without checking to see if a frequency is in use, we'd be cited by the FCC... or worse.

While it is possible for some rigs to have filters (like the dsp IF stuff in the newer rigs) for this, as a soundcard mode most rigs can't do it. It is evidenced by station after station I work on 80m psk at night that complains about the problem.

It's a 2khz wide segment f the entire band that is well known for psk operation (and has been for many years). The ARRL simply doesn't care!

Dave WB4IUY
Logged
W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2527




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2010, 08:14:07 PM »

They have some nerve!
Transmitting on the exact frequency and at the exact time they say they will!!  Even when you are using YOUR frequency!

Makes you wonder why they don't wait for you to be done?

73
Bob
Logged
WW5AA
Member

Posts: 2086




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2010, 03:02:10 AM »

"On top of that, 3.580-3.582 is the very segment that has been written into the digital bandplan and published by the league as being for PSK operations. It's not right, and if you or I did it every day without checking to see if a frequency is in use, we'd be cited by the FCC... or worse."

The FCC authorizes the use of CW anywhere on the bands.  The code practice was requested by hams and no one has complained about it for 50 years. The FCC authorized the operation for its benefit to ham radio.  Beware of what you wish for, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help you”.
 
73 de Lindy
Logged
WB4IUY
Member

Posts: 136


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2010, 03:24:49 AM »

"They have some nerve!
Transmitting on the exact frequency and at the exact time they say they will!! Even when you are using YOUR frequency! Makes you wonder why they don't wait for you to be done?"

SO...it's OK for us to go anywhere, fire up, and start transmitting without listening to see if the frequency is busy? From what you're saying, if I've been doing it for years, it's OK?

Dave WB4IUY
Logged
WB4IUY
Member

Posts: 136


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2010, 03:35:22 AM »

"Maybe you need better filtering...I work DX right next to W1AW without a problem. Seems everyone complains about one mode or the other these days.
73 de Lindy"

Hi Lindy,

Are you working PSK right next to them, or some other mode?

By it being a soundcard mode for most users, we set the rig to 3.580 USB, and the waterfall shows signals frm 3.580-3.583. Since it uses USB, the receiver uses a USB voice filter, maybe 1.8khz narrow at best. It not an issue since most users are runing very low power. When W1AW sits down in the middle of the psk sub-band and fires up that monster signal, the receiver AGC clamps and the rest of the waterfall goes dark...weaker signals disappear.

In this narrow passband, there are often 8-12 conversations underway that don't stand much of a chance.

If some of you are working PSK-31 on 80m in soundcard mode and are able to filter out W1AW in the PSK sub-band, I'd like to hear how you do it, considering the most narrow SSB filter is about 1.8 khz. I could see this on rigs with the newer DSP IF filters that are programmable. My IC-756 has crystal filters in the IF.

Dave WB4IUY
Logged
N3OX
Member

Posts: 8847


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2010, 07:56:09 AM »

It doesn't really count as QRM if your receiving technique is totally blown away by undesired signals far, far outside the required passband of the mode you're using.  PSK does not have to be carried out using 1.8kHz filters and a waterfall display.  A super loud PSK station 1kHz up from the weak one you're working would cause you similar trouble.

It's not fair to use a receiving system with no dynamic range and then get upset at other stations that have the audacity to put out a good signal.  This is a common complaint with PSK.... but it's not really the fault of loud stations, W1AW or otherwise.  It's the fault of the receiving technique.  

If you had a way to switch in a narrow CW filter on PSK, your problem would disappear.  My 300Hz CW filter is great on PSK to keep that really loud guy from pumping my AGC.

  Why is it W1AW's fault that you don't have that?  How is it their responsibility to fix your station issues?

I recognize that this is a common practice in PSK, using a SSB filter to see the whole waterfall.  And I like that when it works.  But it has a serious deficiency in terms of strong signals anywhere in the waterfall.  I do not find it acceptable to insist on low absolute signal levels or big guard bands around the PSK waterfall zones, when ultimately the fault lies in the receiving technique.  Listening to the whole waterfall only works when everyone in it is similar strength, and as such, it is a very fragile technique on the ham bands...

73,
Dan

« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 07:58:49 AM by N3OX » Logged

73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
N7RCF
Member

Posts: 14




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2010, 12:11:46 PM »

WB4IUY writes:

“If some of you are working PSK-31 on 80m in soundcard mode and are able to filter out W1AW in the PSK sub-band, I'd like to hear how you do it”


I also routinely have PSK-31 QSO’s near W1AW’s CW signal. I AM of coarse 2,600 miles away from them and you are only 500 or so…. HI….HI….

But I am using different transceivers also. I use an Icom 746 PRO and a Kenwood TS-480.  

This is how I do it on my IC-746PRO. I start by using my widest filter. I then select filter 2 (set at 300 Hz) to exclude stronger signals that may pump the AGC. I will then click on a station calling CQ. I then click center to tune the radio to this signal. I then select my narrowest filter (set at 50 Hz). Unless a station inadvertently transmits on top of us, I and the other OM are alone in the universe… HI…HI…
Using my widest filter, I can also use the manual notch filter to select a strong signal and attenuate it down 70dB, avoiding AGC pumping.
I can also use the twin pass band tuning control to attenuate strong signals.

On the TS-480 I use the optional 270 Hz CW filter that’s available for use on SSB to try to attenuate strong adjacent signals. As the filtering on this radio is not as robust as the IC-746PRO some AGC pumping is unavoidable, but as this is normally my portable station, I live with it.

New modes sometimes require capabilities that older radios do not have. Excoriating W1AW’s narrow little CW signal because YOUR AGC is pumping is putting the cart before the horse. If you enjoy the digital modes, this is the perfect excuse to buy a new radio with better capabilities… HI… HI…

73 de Rick
Logged
WB4IUY
Member

Posts: 136


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2010, 02:53:26 PM »

Dan, how do you utilize your CW filter while in USB mode?

Dave Wb4IUY
Logged
WB4IUY
Member

Posts: 136


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2010, 03:06:40 PM »

Rick, same as the question I just asked Dan...how do you switch in a CW filter in the SSB mode? My rig is a circa 1996 IC-756 with crystal filters... I'm assuming I'd have to open up the rig and physically move the CW filter an SSB slot? I've tried programming the swap, but it's not available in the current configuration.

Now, the "auto-centering" you mention is something I had not thought about. I just ran a test by switching to my narrow 1.8 khz SSB filter, cranked the twin PBT controls to center around 1.5 khz with minimum overlap, and obtained a passband of about 500hz. That's gotta help some.

I have a narrow CW filter, but it seems that I'd have to physically move it in the rig. Maybe I could ditch the 1.8 khz SSB filter that I don't use anyway, and put a different narrow filter in that position.

Thanks for helping me see a possible solution to the problem on my end, folks.

Dave WB4IUY
Logged
N3OX
Member

Posts: 8847


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2010, 03:29:02 PM »

My FT-857 has a "DIG" mode where it will TX on USB or LSB with a choice of installed filters.  It will also allow me to choose any filter on any mode.  If yours doesn't, I wonder if you could work semi -split and receive on CW mode... I don't know about your rig off the top of my head but if it has some sort of RTTY/FSK mode maybe it's more flexible? 
Logged

73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
N7RCF
Member

Posts: 14




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2010, 04:46:50 PM »

Dave:

I don’t select a CW filter on SSB with the IC-746PRO, only on the TS-480 that has plug in filters.

On my IC-746PRO, the filters are DSP and have 3 programmable filter widths. You can adjust the widths before hand and then select them on the fly as you need a narrower and narrower filter. These 3 filter widths are separately programmable for each mode. So I have 3 filter widths for CW, SSB, FM and so on. You can crank them down as low as 50 Hz. This aspect of the PRO’s DSP is a very nice feature. I can work a very weak DX signal right next to a strong one without the AGC noticing he’s there!

I looked at your radio manual online and don’t see an adjustable manual notch filter like my PRO. That is another valuable asset in fighting QRM. But you do have the twin pass band tuning control and a pass band of 500 Hz is really going to help you keep strong signals from pumping your AGC! You can also use the twin PBT control to see “areas” on your waterfall. Say one side of the waterfall contains a group of strong signals and one side contains some weaker DX you want to target, use the twin PBT to just pass the area of interest. Then once you select a signal, crank it down as far as it will go. Of coarse, if a strong station transmits in your pass band “there goes the neighborhood” HI… HI…

If you have to, you can always tune your radio to one side or another of that strong offending signal to keep it out of your pass band.

Also, have you considered an outboard DSP unit like the MFJ-784B brick wall filter?

Don’t get mad, hunt down that QRM and kill it. Err, notch it, filter it, get it out of your pass band anyway you can. Your AGC and your logbook will thank you... HI… HI…

73 de Rick
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!