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Author Topic: General Test  (Read 28537 times)
AD6KA
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Posts: 2232




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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2010, 12:15:00 PM »

I knew the truth would come out, thanks to KC9EOT and W9AMR.

By KC8KTN
“I am now going to get my vec after I get my general.”

Hehe....let us know how far you get with that VEC Application & Exam.  A bad reputation is like cat piss on the drapes...no matter what you do you can never get rid of it.
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W6GVS
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Posts: 2




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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2010, 01:39:01 PM »

Chuck has been a ham for 11 years.  He spent the first ten years doing echotests and sinad tests on a local repeater.  These tests were done from his workplace, his bathroom, his driveway, his garage, ad infinitum, ad nauseum...

This alone isn't criteria for denying him the opportunity to take the exam. But his behavior on local repeaters and simplex frequencies puts his character in question.  I've heard him on simplex and the drunker he got the more foul-mouthed he got.

His association with a small group of anti-American lunatic fringe ops who have been banned from most repeaters in the area also makes his character questionable.  Again, not grounds for denying him the exam, but then that denial doesn't have to be based on cause.

Just $.02 from someone who has known him long enough to dislike him. And that didn't take very long to happen.

W6GVS
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WY3X
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Posts: 768




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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2010, 01:42:03 PM »

Having read everything laid on the line by two members of the VE team, Chuck, the best advice I can give you is to lay low for a couple of years. Disassociate yourself from the crowd you've apparently been hanging with. Then go before your local club, head down and hat in hand, and apologize for your past. Let them know that you've matured and you're over that. Then act like a ham who has some sense and don't do that any more. You can improve the opinion of you that others have if you try, but they're always going to remember you flaunting FCC rules and bragging about it while in an alcohol-saturated demeanor. Some things are better left not done, as you're discovering. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors, -AJ4VM
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AD6KA
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Posts: 2232




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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2010, 01:58:24 PM »

OK, first of all, I am not defending KC8KTN or his right to take the test. I am not saying the VE's were wrong to send him packing. Hell, I hope the FCC TAKES AWAY HIS CURRENT TICKET.

But out of curiosity I went to the ARRL Website and downloaded the 2008 ARRL/VEC Volunteer Examiner Manual. Page 49 lists the reasons a VE may refuse service to an applicant. I cut and pasted it to the bottom of the post.

Do different rules apply since this session was sponsored by W5YI?

I am just curious, that's all. No flames please, I am not defending this scofflaw, just curious as to which rules apply. Does it depend on the sponsor? ie W5YI or ARRL?

ARRL VEC/Volunteer Examiner Manual,
Authors: K1CE and AB1FM
Page 49:

When May VEs Refuse Service to an Applicant?

VEs may not refuse service to anyone who is seeking an amateur license or upgrade, with the following exceptions:

• The applicant does not provide adequate identification document(s) to the VE Team;

• The applicant is disruptive during the examination;

• The applicant requires special assistance from the VE Team, such as accommodations for the handicapped that the team is not prepared to make available at that time. In such cases, the VE Team must suggest a convenient alternative date/time/location at which they will provide the requested assistance or accommodation (as required under FCC Rule 97.509). The VE Team should indicate in its public announcements that special testing assistance or needs must be arranged in advance.

• Service can be limited to a person when the VE Team has limited time available to it (such as where the test site must be vacated by a particular time). A VE Team might not be able or prepared to ofer retests.
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W9AMR
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Posts: 5




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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2010, 02:55:12 PM »

As noted in my previous response. The VE team may refuse testing to anyone. for no given reason. This can be verified by contacting W5YI and the ARRL. He is not ready to upgrade. Anyone that test him will not be doing ham radio any favors.

As was noted earlier he should distance him self from all these issues. Change his behavior. I might add it will take more then a month or two to prove your a changed person. Stop whining to everyone Chuck and start acting more professional. Try getting along with the local ham community instead of the annoying behavior you have been showing.

There is no doubt he probably will find someone else to test him but if he keeps his behavior the same he won't find him self welcome there either.

Chuck, take some good advice. Make some changes. It will take time to prove your self to the local ham community before you jump in and find your self unwelcome on HF community as well. Your not being picked on or singled out. I have helped bring over 400 new hams amateur radio. Never in any test session was anyone turned away. I am not happy about it! I know your not either. But till you prove your self and mature some you will not be tested in any test session I am at nor will you be welcome on any of my repeaters.

Sorry.

Larry W9AMR
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W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2528




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« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2010, 03:30:10 PM »

Well.  It seems as if at least one person suggests you review if your actions triggered this response.

One can assume that if you continue with the same or similar actions, you'll get the same response.

Unfortunately, if you aren't able to modify your behavior, you'll still be exactly where you are today, having to deal with some strong negative reactions to your behavior.

73
Bob
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KF6QEX
Member

Posts: 590




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« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2010, 04:14:21 PM »

I can't find it!
Refusing to administer the test  because I don't want to and you can't make me or anything similar to this is not in the VE manual. Neither is "I just don't like your behavior on the radio" listed as a reason.

This to me looks like a case of doing the "wrong thing for the right reasons" or "the end justifies the means".

From what I am reading W9AMR  stuck his neck out in full belief that he was doing the "right" thing.

If I were a VE and some guy showed up with a skateboard in one hand and his pants below his waste showing his shorts (one of my pet peeves - can you tell?)  I wouldn't want to give him the test either.I might have even walked out or canceled the session to avoid it.
It wouldn't make it "right" though.

But there is no dress code or character references or "if you know "he is not a good egg" reference anywhere in the VE manual.

Some things cause common sense knee-jerk reactions but if this guy has been a nuisance for 11,10,5,1 year or 2 weeks and no action was taken (ie the guy still has a ham ticket)
The time to "take care of this guy" was not when he tried to upgrade. Heck, if he is so disrespectful of authority, why would he care to upgrade?

I don't see where any VE has the right to refuse based on their personal experience with the applicant.

 
Note to Chuck: C'MON man!!! You are not winning any congenialtiy awards. No matter what license you have.








« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 04:16:38 PM by Dimitri Patakidis » Logged
KC9EOT
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Posts: 38




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« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2010, 06:05:04 PM »

The CB part does not matter the fact that he uses obscene language on repeaters, has been banned from all of the repeaters (should tell you something) is an issue
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KC7CDL
Member

Posts: 1




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« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2010, 06:15:08 PM »

Well,his behavior could be questionable,but I have to agree that is no reason to refuse to test him.The FCC does enforce that kind of behavior on the HF bands,remember 14.313?If he does engage in the antics mentoned,the response he'd get on HF with a General ticket would be much more severe,and maybe that's what it would take to correct the problem,if one exists...

Then again,maybe with the HF privileges he'd mellow out anyway...
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KC9EOT
Member

Posts: 38




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« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2010, 06:17:30 PM »

Well actually this was a w5yi exam and in their manual we may refuse, however after filling in one from ARRL they are familiar with Chuck's reputation also and the rejection would stand with ARRL anyway after all we dont work "for" Arrl or W5YI, we are not their employees we are volunteers and as such we may refuse. I dont think anyone at this test session would have any problems in turning in the ARRL VE badge rather than test this individual until he grows up, and Chuck, you can get a license eventually but you have to start by taking responsibility for your actions. Do that and come back and see us in a couple years or so.
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W9AMR
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Posts: 5




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« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2010, 06:38:43 PM »

RE: General Test  Reply  
by KF6QEX on February 28, 2010  Mail this to a friend!  
I can't find it!
Refusing to administer the test  because I don't want to and you can't make me or anything similar to this is not in the VE manual. Neither is "I just don't like your behavior on the radio" listed as a reason

well...

A simple call or an email to W5YI or ARRL will answer your Question. Please make the call. I am not going to get in a pissing match with anyone over this situation. I made the call. find out for your selfs.

I know at least I have not promoted his radio antics by rewarding him with an upgrade. Some other VE can do that. If more VE's paid attention to who they were testing Ham radio would be a lot less like CB. I have nothing against CB'ers. I am one. I listened to this guys CB behavior and I have followed his ham radio activities.  It is not pretty. I have no issues with CB'er getting there licence either. Probably 70-80% of the people I have tested were CB'ers. Most have made really good radio operators.

Enough beating a dead horse. What is done is done! I stand beside my decision. So does the club that supported the test session and my fellow VE's and the CVE that was in charge of the session.

Larry W9AMR    
Larry W9AMR
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W3ML
Member

Posts: 166




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« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2010, 07:15:28 PM »

Here is the wording in the W5YI manual.

"Volunteer examiners are under no obligation to test anyone should they desire not to for any reason. VEs are not considered employees or agents of the government or the VEC. They have no licensing or enforcement authority. They merely volunteer their services as a private citizen.

VEs agree to hold their VEC harmless in all disputes that might arise and agree to abide by VEC decisions which are final without appeal.

Guidance concerning the activities of volunteer examiners can be found in Part 97, Subpart F. Every Volunteer Examiner must be thoroughly familiar with these Rules."

You can find this like I did on W5YI.org under the VEC section. Each VEC has its own manual of rules to follow based on both the FCC 97 and their own procedures for issuing tests.

John, W3ML
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KC8KTN
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Posts: 461


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« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2010, 07:57:09 PM »

First of all to  who reads the lies that has been said  I hope you are  smarter than to belive such a small minded person. As to kc9eot Harry Robison quote that I have been banned from all local repeaters is a lie. Two this w9amr is a piece of work Larry just because you and your puppets hold vec licence does not make you gods . Third I have tried to work out the disagreements between us and you hide behind your sick wife as to the reason you wont answer  emails. So I goofed around on you tube so what. Explain to the forum world why you have local lawsuits against you.Talk about cb mentality . You sir are a sad individual and I will stack my cards against you or any of your puppets anytime.Again if I am such a bad person then why do I still have my license Again I will at the end of the day get my license. And you can not stop it. Again thanks to all who have given good advice on this site . What was you used to say on the cb Larry {w9amr} just one phone call. Remember that. 73sssssssssssss
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KC8KTN
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« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2010, 08:09:57 PM »

Dear forum world just to let you know Larry w9amr other saying is I will sue you. Remember that. Also explain to the forum world why you did not want to resolve this like men . I sent you many emails to settle this. Oh thats right men sue each other. And the kerchunking that I am getting blammed for maybee its one of the people you are sueing.kc8ktn/chuck.
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KC8KTN
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« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2010, 08:34:57 PM »

Was just talking to my wife and telling her what was wrote about me by kc9eot cussing on the radio is a flat out lie . Sad part is as I had my wife talked into getting her ticket now she wont . And as to w9amr repeater why were they talking about my wife over the air one night . I know they will just say I am lying. Oh by the way my wife is a nurse over at memorial hospital. Again its funny if I am such a sad person why can I pass a fbi check to have a gun permit. It would seem to me that my actions would have caught up with me . 50 years old no duis , never arrested, no problem with the legal system as far as lawsuits or anything , 4 years in the service from 1978-1982 Navy uss enterprise cvn-65. Again Larry w9amr I feel sorry for you. Everyone this is the last I will speak of this issue. chuck/kc8ktn
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