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Author Topic: Long Live CW  (Read 13526 times)
N2EY
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Posts: 3895




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« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2010, 05:16:06 AM »

N2EY Said:

>>" 2) FOIA only applies to agencies of the executive branch. FCC isn't an Executive branch agency so FOIA doesn't apply. "

----------------------------

All U.S. Federal Government agencies are part of the Executive Branch excluding Judicial. Think of it like this: If the President names the head of the agency, its part of the Executive branch -- except the Judicial even though the President appoints its members. Pretty much all Federal Civil Service workers serve at the leisure of the President. This power is exercised more often than you might think.

The U.S. Congress can create and destroy an agency but it is not allowed to manage anything but the Judicial branch.


I'm afraid that's not exactly how it works.

From the FCC website:

http://www.fcc.gov/aboutus.html

"About the FCC

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent United States government agency. The FCC was established by the Communications Act of 1934 and is charged with regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable. The FCC's jurisdiction covers the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. possessions.


Organization 

The FCC is directed by five Commissioners appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate for 5-year terms, except when filling an unexpired term."

1) It's an independent agency.

2) The commissioners are appointed by the president but must be confirmed by the Senate - just like Supreme Court justices, except the FCC commissioners have 5 year terms.

In any event, FOIA doesn't apply to FCC license exams. The question pools were made public in 1984 for other reasons. And there's very little chance that will change.

73 de Jim, N2EY


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K5YF
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Posts: 77




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« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2010, 06:19:06 PM »

Jim,

This isn't an appropriate thread to discuss this in.

Everyone interested in how the MANY federal government agencies are managed and who is ultimately in charge of them, to take a look at http://www.info.gov

Knowledge is power.

-Brandon
-K5YF
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N2EY
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Posts: 3895




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« Reply #47 on: May 09, 2010, 07:08:58 PM »


This isn't an appropriate thread to discuss this in.

Why not?

If not here, where should it be discussed?

I admit the thread has drifted a long way from "Long Live CW". But it seems to me that the question of whether FOIA applies to FCC license exams would be of interest to lots of hams.

And the fact is that while FCC made the contents of the written exams public information more than 25 years ago, they *never* made the contents of the Morse Code exams public information. Seems to me that if FOIA required it of the writtens, it would be required of the code tests too.


Everyone interested in how the MANY federal government agencies are managed and who is ultimately in charge of them, to take a look at http://www.info.gov


I went to that site, but there's no search function I could find, nor any mention of FCC. Did you find anything about FCC?

I did, however, go to FCC's own website, and found the info I quoted earlier. Seems pretty clear to me that FCC isn't an executive-branch agency, and that FOIA doesn't/didn't require FCC to make license-test content public. They did it for other reasons, lack of money being the primary one.

Do you have *specific* information that proves otherwise?

73 de Jim, N2EY

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K5YF
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Posts: 77




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« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2010, 07:34:45 PM »

Before we go forward with this discussion let's move it to the MISC forum.

You start a thread and I will replace the things I think I know about the structure of the federal government with verifiable facts. Please keep in mind that even if it takes a couple of days between my posts you are not being ignored... I have a busy life...

best 73
-b
-K5YF


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N2EY
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Posts: 3895




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« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2010, 01:44:13 AM »

Before we go forward with this discussion let's move it to the MISC forum.


How about the Licensing forum instead? The discussion is about the FCC, who licenses hams, and about whether FOIA forced them to make the test contents public.

Wouldn't that be a licensing discussion?

73 de Jim N2EY
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K5YF
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Posts: 77




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« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2010, 11:12:26 PM »

Jim,

According to the web site www.usa.gov, the FCC is part of the executive branch. Included on that site is a brief about how each part of the executive branch was created. Most interesting are the agencies which are government corporations -- which imparts to them special legal status.... not sure where to point you for a proper explanation of that.

The FCC web site has pages detailing how to make FOIA requests and how they will be handled by the Commission.

This is to say that the FCC is a part of the Executive Branch of the U.S. Federal Government and is subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

I'm not trying to be a poppinjay, but...  you have my most humble apologies for ruining a perfectly good argument with the facts.

-b
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KC0THP
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Posts: 11




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« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2010, 06:30:56 PM »

  You FOIA guys have sure sucked the fun out of this thread.  Looks to me like you just want the last word.  I'm embarrassed for you.  It's not the example I'd want to set for people who are reading this forum because they're curious about CW.  Heck, they'll think all we do is argue using morse code.  Thankfully I've not experienced that.  Only supportive people who seem to want me to be successful and enjoy the mode.  I'm glad you guys are the minority.  Now, I'm going to go back to my radio and have fun. 
  73 Daniel KC0THP 
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K5YF
Member

Posts: 77




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« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2010, 01:19:53 AM »

Daniel,

I don't want to read too much into your comment, but I hope you aren't taking any of this too seriously.

CW is a hobby, don't do it if it isn't fun for you.

That goes for everyone else as well. Its supposed to be fun and only for fun. A good argument is fun sometimes.... but then again I don't take too many things seriously... CW is fun for me, but it may not be fun for you. Nothing to get serious about either way.

-b
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N2EY
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Posts: 3895




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« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2010, 07:11:56 PM »

  You FOIA guys have sure sucked the fun out of this thread.  Looks to me like you just want the last word.  I'm embarrassed for you.  It's not the example I'd want to set for people who are reading this forum because they're curious about CW.  Heck, they'll think all we do is argue using morse code.  Thankfully I've not experienced that.  Only supportive people who seem to want me to be successful and enjoy the mode.  I'm glad you guys are the minority.  Now, I'm going to go back to my radio and have fun. 
   

Sorry, didn't mean to ruin anyone's fun here.

I thought we were just having a friendly disagreement about something.

I'm moving the FOIA stuff to the "Misc" forum as K5YF suggests.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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N4HAL
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Posts: 53




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« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2010, 03:01:59 PM »

About 1960 the US Army in it's wisdom decided I needed to be a CW operator. Left the service and this mode of communication.
A couple of years ago lost my voice due to cancer but can enjoy the ham radio experience using CW again. Makes evenings enjoyable and traveling the world thru the airwaves is almost as good as a vacation there.
I feel at home with my equipment too...which is nearly as old as I am.

Enjoying CW-u bet!

KJ4RDQ a voiceless ham on the air!
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N4KZ
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Posts: 599




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« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2010, 06:21:46 PM »

Getting back to the original topic of CW's future, I have just returned from Dayton where the number of CW key, keyer and paddle manufacturers with their products on display was very impressive. These booths were attracting large crowds and people were buying. I've been to the Hamvention for 34 consecutive years and I have never seen so many CW-related vendors there. They were everywhere. And some CW organizations I'd never heard of, including guys sending CW to sounders -- perhaps the original American Morse -- were even there. CW sure doesn't look like it's dying judging from the tremendous interest in it at Hamvention. Begali started coming to Dayton about 3 years ago and each year their booth are grown in size. This weekend it was three times the size of last year's booth and it was a very busy place.

Now that CW has gained newfound respect among hams as an artform instead of a requirement, it's taken off with the likes I've never seen in 41 years of hamming.

73, N4KZ
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KJ4UUX
Member

Posts: 1




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« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2010, 11:30:54 AM »

Getting back to the original topic of CW's future, I have just returned from Dayton where the number of CW key, keyer and paddle manufacturers with their products on display was very impressive. These booths were attracting large crowds and people were buying. I've been to the Hamvention for 34 consecutive years and I have never seen so many CW-related vendors there. They were everywhere. And some CW organizations I'd never heard of, including guys sending CW to sounders -- perhaps the original American Morse -- were even there. CW sure doesn't look like it's dying judging from the tremendous interest in it at Hamvention. Begali started coming to Dayton about 3 years ago and each year their booth are grown in size. This weekend it was three times the size of last year's booth and it was a very busy place.

Now that CW has gained newfound respect among hams as an artform instead of a requirement, it's taken off with the likes I've never seen in 41 years of hamming.

73, N4KZ


I am an ex-Novice ticket holder and recently returned General Class.  My favorite method of operation is still CW.  I was a radioman in the Navy and qualified @ 23wpm.  I am working on getting a QRP station set up in my house so I can get back on HF/CW!  One of the things I noticed when I view YouTube videos of CW ops is how many of them are young people.  That's just great.  I love code!

Indeed, Long Live CW!! Cheesy

73, KJ4UUX
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