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Author Topic: Long Live CW  (Read 12922 times)
N9GXA
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Posts: 119




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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2010, 04:29:31 AM »

Ever wake up in a cold sweat because of a nightmare where the FCC dis-allowed morse code? Yeah - I hate that!

;-)
73 - Paul - N9GXA
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N2EY
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Posts: 3879




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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2010, 04:38:21 AM »


But CW is allowed on all bands except 60m.


Actually, to be 100% accurate, there's one other US amateur band where CW isn't allowed: 219-220 MHz.

FCC 97.303 (e)

(1) Use of the 219-220 MHz segment is limited to amateur stations participating, as forwarding stations, in point-to-point fixed digital message forwarding systems, including intercity packet backbone networks. It is not available for other purposes.

There are other requirements about the use of that band. It's a shared allocation and hams are secondary users.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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KU5Q
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2010, 04:50:42 PM »

RE: Long Live CW       Reply
by N2EY on April 10, 2010    Mail this to a friend!
Quote from: KU [2010-04-09 18:41]


But CW is allowed on all bands except 60m.



Actually, to be 100% accurate, there's one other US amateur band where CW isn't allowed: 219-220 MHz.

FCC 97.303 (e)

(1) Use of the 219-220 MHz segment is limited to amateur stations participating, as forwarding stations, in point-to-point fixed digital message forwarding systems, including intercity packet backbone networks. It is not available for other purposes.

There are other requirements about the use of that band. It's a shared allocation and hams are secondary users.

73 de Jim, N2EY


=====================================================

Wow thanks Jim! You are the sharpest radio hobbyists I know!

§ 97.303   Frequency sharing requirements.

 (e) In the 1.25 m band:

(1) Use of the 219–220 MHz segment is limited to amateur stations participating, as forwarding stations, in point-to-point fixed digital message forwarding systems, including intercity packet backbone networks. It is not available for other purposes.

(2) No amateur station transmitting in the 219–220 MHz segment shall cause harmful interference to, nor is protected from interference due to operation of Automated Maritime Telecommunications Systems (AMTS), television broadcasting on channels 11 and 13, 218–219 MHz Service systems, Land Mobile Services systems, or any other service having a primary allocation in or adjacent to the band.

(3) No amateur station may transmit in the 219–220 MHz segment unless the licensee has given written notification of the station's specific geographic location for such transmissions in order to be incorporated into a data base that has been made available to the public. The notification must be given at least 30 days prior to making such transmissions. The notification must be given to: The American Radio Relay, Inc., 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111–1494.

(4) No amateur station may transmit in the 219–220 MHz segment from a location that is within 640 km of an AMTS Coast Station that uses frequencies in the 217–218/219–220 MHz AMTS bands unless the amateur station licensee has given written notification of the station's specific geographic location for such transmissions to the AMTS licensee. The notification must be given at least 30 days prior to making such transmissions. The location of AMTS Coast Stations using the 217–218/219–220 MHz channels may be obtained from either:

The American Radio Relay League, Inc., 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111–1494;

or

Interactive Systems, Inc., Suite 1103, 1601 North Kent Street, Arlington, VA 22209; Fax: (703) 812–8275; Phone: (703) 812–8270.

(5) No amateur station may transmit in the 219–220 MHz segment from a location that is within 80 km of an AMTS Coast Station that uses frequencies in the 217–218/219–220 MHz AMTS bands unless that amateur station licensee holds written approval from that AMTS licensee. The location of AMTS Coast Stations using the 217–218/219–220 MHz channels may be obtained as noted in paragraph (e)(4) of this section.

(s) An amateur station having an operator holding a General, Advanced or Amateur Extra Class license may only transmit single sideband, suppressed carrier, (emission type 2K8J3E) upper sideband on the channels 5332 kHz, 5348 kHz, 5368 kHz, 5373 kHz, and 5405 kHz. Amateur operators shall ensure that their transmission occupies only the 2.8 kHz centered around each of these frequencies. Transmissions shall not exceed an effective radiated power (e.r.p) of 50 W PEP. For the purpose of computing e.r.p. the transmitter PEP will be multiplied with the antenna gain relative to a dipole or the equivalent calculation in decibels. A half wave dipole antenna will be presumed to have a gain of 0 dBd. Licensees using other antennas must maintain in their station records either manufacturer data on the antenna gain or calculations of the antenna gain. No amateur station shall cause harmful interference to stations authorized in the mobile and fixed services; nor is any amateur station protected from interference due to the operation of any such station.

§ 97.305   Authorized emission types.

(a) Except as specified elsewhere in this part, an amateur station may transmit a CW emission on any frequency authorized to the control operator.
(b) A station may transmit a test emission on any frequency authorized to the control operator for brief periods for experimental purposes, except that no pulse modulation emission may be transmitted on any frequency where pulse is not specifically authorized and no SS modulation emission may be transmitted on any frequency where SS is not specifically authorized.
(c) A station may transmit the following emission types on the frequencies indicated, as authorized to the control operator, subject to the standards specified in §97.307(f) of this part.

see chart;http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=dfa156763af123c148490f6584d84944&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:5.0.1.1.6&idno=47#47:5.0.1.1.6.4.157.3
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NN6EE
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Posts: 32




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« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2010, 02:37:44 PM »

I remember way back when (1993) that an organization known as "NO-CODE INTERNATIONAL" was just getting started and " lo-and-behold"
a few years later THEY GOT THEIR WISH! BUT! Lo-and-behold a few years AFTER the requirement was dropped for the CW testing requirement alot of guys started to "LEARN" Intl. Morse and ENJOY IT!

Seems strange in one respect whereby if it was a requirement for the General or above most balked at it, but yet NOW those same individuals are now not only learning it but finding that they're good AT IT!

Many of us out here worked our way up threw the ranks of the licensing game and ACCEPTED IT as our gateway to HF! Now they're learning it in droves!

Was it because of government mandates that that happened or was it that our "NO-CODE" detractors finally saw the "LIGHT?"

JIM/nn6ee
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KU5Q
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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2010, 03:33:19 PM »

RE: Long Live CW       Reply
by NN6EE on April 11, 2010    Mail this to a friend!
I remember way back when (1993) that an organization known as "NO-CODE INTERNATIONAL" was just getting started and " lo-and-behold"
a few years later THEY GOT THEIR WISH! BUT! Lo-and-behold a few years AFTER the requirement was dropped for the CW testing requirement alot of guys started to "LEARN" Intl. Morse and ENJOY IT!

Seems strange in one respect whereby if it was a requirement for the General or above most balked at it, but yet NOW those same individuals are now not only learning it but finding that they're good AT IT!

Many of us out here worked our way up threw the ranks of the licensing game and ACCEPTED IT as our gateway to HF! Now they're learning it in droves!

Was it because of government mandates that that happened or was it that our "NO-CODE" detractors finally saw the "LIGHT?"

JIM/nn6ee

=================================================

Jim, think about this........

I'm an oddity. Had I come along 40 years ago, I'd be a lot happier today to work up in the system.

As it is today, if I hadn't found CW (the last real challenge in the ARS, hell...you can but a vanity call, and any mucho station you can afford, BUT YOU CAN'T BUY THE SKILL TO BE A TRUE, GOOD CW OP!!!)I would just sell all my gear, cancel my license, and get the hell out of ham radio. There are plenty that hope I will do that anyway!!

But for the next several months, no microphones. Only CW. I'm selling all my gear except one xcvr, paddle, and my VIA. CW only!!

Time to pay my dues.

Should have done it to start.
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N2EY
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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2010, 05:17:47 PM »


Wow thanks Jim! You are the sharpest radio hobbyists I know!


HAW! That's a good one! Thanks for the chuckle.

Lots of interesting trivia in Part 97:

- FCC lists 80 and 75 meters as if they were different bands

- There are US ham radio two subbands which are CW-only - no other modes allowed. Ironically, they are 50.0 to 50.1 and 144.0 to 144.1 MHz.

- A Technician who can show that s/he held a Technician license, or passed the tests for it, before March 21, 1987, gets a free no-test upgrade to General. But it has to be applied for through the VE system.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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K9AIM
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Posts: 1030




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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2010, 08:48:16 PM »

here's another good CW link:

http://www.donkeith.com/n4kc/cw_morse_code.htm
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KG4PFO
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Posts: 174




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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2010, 05:24:47 AM »

CW, thats a TV network right ?
No interest at all, open that part of the band for phone.
That should do it ...HA !!!
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N2EY
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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2010, 06:04:30 AM »

you can but a vanity call, and any mucho station you can afford, BUT YOU CAN'T BUY THE SKILL TO BE A TRUE, GOOD CW OP!!!)

Which is what really bothers some folks - and attracts others.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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KU5Q
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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2010, 08:23:00 PM »

you can buy a vanity call, and any mucho station you can afford, BUT YOU CAN'T BUY THE SKILL TO BE A TRUE, GOOD CW OP!!!)

Which is what really bothers some folks - and attracts others.

73 de Jim, N2EY


The more I read about the days of the Novice class, and CW requirement, and the way to advance up in the privileges, the more things make sense about the sense of accomplishment folks had in those days. It will never be that way again. 30 years too late. I'm beginning to understand how the ops feel that were licensed 30-40 years ago.     
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NI0C
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« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2010, 10:23:04 AM »

KU5Q wrote:

"The more I read about the days of the Novice class, and CW requirement, and the way to advance up in the privileges, the more things make sense about the sense of accomplishment folks had in those days. It will never be that way again. 30 years too late. I'm beginning to understand how the ops feel that were licensed 30-40 years ago."

I think some folks make way too much of the accomplishment in attaining a certain license class.  This is only the beginning.  The real accomplishments are achieved on the air.  In that sense, nothing has really changed.

73,
Chuck   NI0C
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KU5Q
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« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2010, 07:51:10 AM »

KU5Q wrote:

"The more I read about the days of the Novice class, and CW requirement, and the way to advance up in the privileges, the more things make sense about the sense of accomplishment folks had in those days. It will never be that way again. 30 years too late. I'm beginning to understand how the ops feel that were licensed 30-40 years ago."

I think some folks make way too much of the accomplishment in attaining a certain license class.  This is only the beginning.  The real accomplishments are achieved on the air.  In that sense, nothing has really changed.

73,
Chuck   NI0C


What's changed is it's too damn easy to get the licenses. All three elements. Buy the questions, buy the answers. And on top of that, classes to teach the tests!! No morse code proficiency test at all. Little effort to get all the privileges the old timers had to work a lot harder to get. You know what I'm getting at. Yes, the passing of any examination for any kind of license/certification/degree/etc is a gateway. That's a "no brainer".

Most people (I believe) appreciate more, something that they had to put some extra effort to get. From what I see, there's a whole lot less effort to get an Extra class ham license than there was 30-40 years ago. It's not the examinees fault of course.

But, I think it's pretty sad when a new Extra Class operator can't read a 2m CW repeater ident.

And I don't give a damn if the old timers like me or not, I have a lot of respect for what they had to do in their day to get their privileges. Whether or not they do anything with them once they get the licenses is another thing.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.........

Capice?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 07:52:54 AM by Terry L. Perry » Logged
NI0C
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Posts: 2406




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« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2010, 10:11:52 AM »

KU5Q:

Of course I know what you're talking about.  It's all been beaten to death in these online forums. 

I don't really care if a new ham can't copy the Morse ID on a VHF or UHF repeater.  They're not required to; besides Morse identifiers are really superfluous to repeater operation.  I'm more concerned about their ability to copy CW signals that appear in HF band space shared with digital modes.

The use of the question pools and "teaching to the test" are valid issues.  But I've helped some guys to upgrade their licenses and they took pride in learning the material, rather than just memorizing correct answers.  I know there are exceptions, but really-- so what?

I think the vast majority of hams want to be good radio operators because this naturally enhances the enjoyment and satisfaction they get out of the hobby. 

Too many bad feelings have resulted from license class distinctions in amateur radio.  I'm glad to be an old-timer with memories of sunspot cycles past, and I hope that many of the new hams will find as much enjoyment as I have and continue to have. 

73
Chuck  NI0C
 
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KU5Q
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« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2010, 08:05:56 AM »

KU5Q:

Of course I know what you're talking about.  It's all been beaten to death in these online forums.  

I don't really care if a new ham can't copy the Morse ID on a VHF or UHF repeater.  They're not required to; besides Morse identifiers are really superfluous to repeater operation.  I'm more concerned about their ability to copy CW signals that appear in HF band space shared with digital modes.

The use of the question pools and "teaching to the test" are valid issues.  But I've helped some guys to upgrade their licenses and they took pride in learning the material, rather than just memorizing correct answers.  I know there are exceptions, but really-- so what?

I think the vast majority of hams want to be good radio operators because this naturally enhances the enjoyment and satisfaction they get out of the hobby.  

Too many bad feelings have resulted from license class distinctions in amateur radio.  I'm glad to be an old-timer with memories of sunspot cycles past, and I hope that many of the new hams will find as much enjoyment as I have and continue to have.  

73
Chuck  NI0C
 

Current licensing system = buy the questions, buy the answers, buy a course to have someone teach them to you = *NO INCENTIVE TO LEARN OR IMPROVE*

Listen to the bands filled with *Instant Extras* that can't set up their station, don't have the faintest idea how their equipment works, couldn't copy a lick of code and don't care to learn it.

Sorry bud, I don't buy into your "Kumbaya" thinking.

I like the T-shirt "Without CW, it's just CB".

Yes, I'm grateful for CW and those of the old guard. I didn't have to learn it, but I did and I'm glad I did. Even in CW "ragchewing" I don't talk about this garbage, and don't have to deal with it. Only on the phone bands, and on the internet. All the better reason to stay away from the mic and the keyboard.

Sad, very sad.

Yes, long live CW.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 01:53:10 PM by Terry L. Perry » Logged
NI0C
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Posts: 2406




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« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2010, 03:54:04 PM »

KU5Q:

If you have so much respect for "the old guard" and cw operators, and those who got their extra class licenses 30-40 years ago, why do you refer to me as "bud" ?

All I'm trying to tell you is enjoy your CW and have fun with it.   There's really no need to look down upon others or criticize them for enjoying the privileges they earned by passing the exams that were in effect when they took them. 

See you on the bands,

73,
Chuck  NI0C








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