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Author Topic: Ameritron ALS-1300 Unpacking / Pictures  (Read 39993 times)
N8YX
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Posts: 113




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« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2011, 06:56:24 AM »

Being capable of doing it in short term is one thing while being able to sustain it long term is quite another.
After reading through the following:

http://www.ameritron.com/man/pdf/ALS-1300.pdf

one sees no mention of Ameritron claiming that the product is capable of CCS. For that matter, no duty cycle figures are quoted whatsoever.

Looking at the manual of the vaunted THL 1.5fx -

http://www.tokyohypower.com/pdf/manual_hl1.5kfx.pdf

one sees no mention of duty cycle, either.

However, there is something very telling in that manual. Section 2.7, pages 1-2:

Quote
"Please note, however, any such actions that cause the same fault to occur repeatedly, will lead to the failure of the valuable final power FET transistors..."

Sounds an awful lot like a warning against pilot error.

Ameritron also cautions the operator not to overdrive the -1300.



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KD8MJR
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Posts: 2272




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« Reply #106 on: March 25, 2011, 04:56:15 PM »


After reading through the following:

http://www.ameritron.com/man/pdf/ALS-1300.pdf

one sees no mention of Ameritron claiming that the product is capable of CCS. For that matter, no duty cycle figures are quoted whatsoever.

Yes, but one expects with regular 50% duty cycle that the Amp will not Blow up!
The fact is that as W8JX stated the Amp will do 1200 Watts, but for how long?  I stated at the start of all of this that the Amp could do a theoretical 1200 Watts, but I also stated that it would not last long.  Has that not been the case according to the eham reviews?


Looking at the manual of the vaunted THL 1.5fx -

http://www.tokyohypower.com/pdf/manual_hl1.5kfx.pdf

one sees no mention of duty cycle, either.

However, there is something very telling in that manual. Section 2.7, pages 1-2:

Quote
"Please note, however, any such actions that cause the same fault to occur repeatedly, will lead to the failure of the valuable final power FET transistors..."

Sounds an awful lot like a warning against pilot error.

Ameritron also cautions the operator not to overdrive the -1300.


That Warning is not about overdriving in specific, it's talking about High SWR, heat and over voltage along with over drive.  They are saying that if the Amp keeps on Fault tripping don't just keep resetting it and going on about your business!  I think just about any amp manufacturer would tell you the same thing.
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KD8MJR
Member

Posts: 2272




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« Reply #107 on: March 25, 2011, 05:07:05 PM »

75% Efficiency LOL !  That kind of post is exactly why I gave up with this Argument.
...and you're still here why?

Because people keep coming back and posting rubbish that needs clarification.



By your own words:

Quote
"...Look I am no expert on Amplifiers..."
Tom, W8JI is.

If he says the device is capable of the power output which Ameritron claims, you may take that to the bank.

This of course assumes the assemblers did their jobs correctly.

Well yeah it can do 1200 Watts, it just wont last very long.  Hence why many of the people who own them are having blown out finals.  The lucky part for Amertron is that almost all the new owners will somehow find this thread and Back off the power and probably baby the Amp, so Ameritron might have less returns from now on.
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W8JX
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Posts: 5783




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« Reply #108 on: March 26, 2011, 08:53:47 AM »

Well yeah it can do 1200 Watts, it just wont last very long.  Hence why many of the people who own them are having blown out finals.  The lucky part for Amertron is that almost all the new owners will somehow find this thread and Back off the power and probably baby the Amp, so Ameritron might have less returns from now on.

If Ameritron had simply adjusted supply voltage and bias and rated amp at 900 watts or so and used same design they would have had a pretty solid amp with a much better reputation and only a negligible 1 db less than 1200 watts too. But, sadly it is all about the numbers here and not reliability. 
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AG8K
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Posts: 33




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« Reply #109 on: March 26, 2011, 05:09:22 PM »

It seems to be just deceit in advertising which is common in the USA.  Sure that Leaf electric car will go 100 miles between charges if driven slow, without the heater or the AC on, or even playing the radio.  If you are going downhill that will help also. 

I am looking forward to seeing what the ARRL labs thinks of the ALS-1300.  The Alpha 9500 seems to have passed with flying colors.  Ameritron must know what the power level is that can be run key down in CCS and what the 50% duty cycle is for their products.  They furnish figures for their tube amps. 

It was named ALS-1300 because it was supposed to run 1300 PEP but the company found out that it should be run at 1200 watts PEP.  Darn I want an Alpha!

Tom AG8K



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KD8MJR
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Posts: 2272




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« Reply #110 on: March 28, 2011, 02:54:12 PM »


I am looking forward to seeing what the ARRL labs thinks of the ALS-1300.  The Alpha 9500 seems to have passed with flying colors.  

Tom AG8K


Tom I thought the Leaf Electric car was such a funny comparison LOL But I would not
hold my breath on the ARRL review, lets just say that from some posts I have read, the ARRL is not all that Fond of Bashing MFJ.  Needless to say, I doubt the Amp would fail the tests, it can put out 1200 Watts for testing, unless of course they Key it down too long LOL. More than likely under regular tests it will pass, it's only if they did some long term tests over a month or two that they would find the problems.  Maybe the only real thing they are going to find is that the IMD numbers are not so hot.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 02:56:00 PM by KD8MJR » Logged
K7KB
Member

Posts: 607




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« Reply #111 on: March 29, 2011, 03:36:12 PM »

My ALS-1300 came back from repair at Ameritron yesterday. It was in the shop for about a month, so I was without the amp for about a month and a half if you include shipping time. So although they don't win any prizes for a quick turnaround time, it's probably not out of line for most repair facilities. As suspected, they had to replace the +12V section of the power supply. Seems to be working fine again and keeping my fingers crossed this was the only trip back to Mississippi it will have to make.

John K7KB
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 5783




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« Reply #112 on: March 29, 2011, 04:09:03 PM »

Seems to be working fine again and keeping my fingers crossed this was the only trip back to Mississippi it will have to make.


If you treat it as a 900 watt or so amp you will likely get your wish but it you try to play it as a 1200 watt amp the odds are higher against your wish coming true. Good luck. Smiley
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KD8MJR
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Posts: 2272




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« Reply #113 on: March 30, 2011, 04:15:38 PM »

The ALS-600 is considered by some to be bullet proof. It uses four MRF-150 MOSFETs at 600 watts. the ALS-1300 uses eight MRF-150 MOSFETs at 1200 watts. If the ALS-600 is not driving the transistors to destruction the ALS-1300 is not.

Note that the brand new THP HL-550FX amp uses four MRF-150 type transistors at 600 watts. They run the same power per device that Ameritron does.

Dave at the time when you posted this I thought it very strange of THP, but I took you at your word and did no research.  I could not figure out how a company like THP that is so conservative on ratings would put a 600 Watt sticker on an amp with 600 Watts of FETS.

WELL YOU WERE WRONG, IT'S NOT A 600 WATT AMP IT'S A 550 WATT AMP!
http://www.thp.co.jp/english/hl_550fx_e.html

Now I assume this was a honest mistake on your part, but once again it shows that even if a company with probably the best built in safety features to make their amps bullet proof will not drive four MRF-150's to 600 watts, how well does it bode for Ameritron 1300 owners.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 04:17:51 PM by KD8MJR » Logged
WX7G
Member

Posts: 6043




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« Reply #114 on: April 01, 2011, 08:24:59 AM »

As I've pointed out before, the 150 watt "rating" of the MRF-150 is based on linearity and not reliability.

For reliability one must look at the other specs with the primary focus being die temperature.

My 600 watt number for the THP amp came directly from the text at the Ham Radio Outlet website.
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2802




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« Reply #115 on: April 01, 2011, 05:46:16 PM »

As I've pointed out before, the 150 watt "rating" of the MRF-150 is based on linearity and not reliability.

For reliability one must look at the other specs with the primary focus being die temperature.

My 600 watt number for the THP amp came directly from the text at the Ham Radio Outlet website.

I would tend to believe the manufacturer rather than a vendor. 

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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
W8JX
Member

Posts: 5783




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« Reply #116 on: April 02, 2011, 08:21:00 AM »

Last nite I was talking to a guy on 40 that had bought a 1300 and after sending it back for repairs twice because amp died, sold/traded it for a tube amp.
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N3OX
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Posts: 8847


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« Reply #117 on: April 02, 2011, 08:29:07 AM »

What I want to know is if the people who are losing their amps have problems like high power exciter spikes because of ALC issues or improper relay timing, etc.
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73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
N3JBH
Member

Posts: 2358




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« Reply #118 on: April 02, 2011, 08:40:58 AM »

The THP amp has some description deference's  from the HRO site and the manufacturers site  HRO claims it is good for 400 watts for RTTY also
"Output power: 600W SSB (p.e.p) typically, RTTY 400W"
But THP claims a different story They claim 250 watts on RTTY
"(550W typ., 50MHz 500W(RTTY,SSTV,FM 250W max.)

I would agree i follow what THP states rather then what a vendor says
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W8JX
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Posts: 5783




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« Reply #119 on: April 02, 2011, 04:23:01 PM »

What I want to know is if the people who are losing their amps have problems like high power exciter spikes because of ALC issues or improper relay timing, etc.


The guy I mentioned was very careful about drive and never used more than 35 watts with it. After two failures it left him so gun shy that even though he now has a true legal limit tube amp he is afraid to push it beyond 800 watts or so.
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