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Author Topic: Should basic literacy be a requirement for a license?  (Read 12354 times)
KF6QEX
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Posts: 605




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« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2010, 05:11:50 PM »

I think it's funny in a perverted sort of way that the thread started with the issue of native english speakers having to have a basic command of the english language and it has deteriorated to "lets-multiply-the problem-by-adding-more-languages-to-the-mix"

This must be a new way of discussing an issue: Instead of breaking it down to smaller pieces lets make it as large as we can so the discussion will change course and by then we will have forgotten what the original issue was we were discussing in the first place.

Ceasar was no fool


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AB2T
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Posts: 246




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« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2010, 12:39:31 AM »

While I do not see bilingual testing on the immediate horizon, the question is important and shouldn't be dismissed.
73 Jordan AB2T/VA3AIT

Hello Jordan AB2T/VA3AIT,

I thought that any kind of "separate but equal" stuff was done away with by the Civil-Rights-Act.
I am not in favor of going backwards.
I am not in favor of insulting any group by providing them with a non-English test.

73 Jerry KM3K


Hi Jerry,

I look at it this way.  A majority of Americans speak English as their native or sole language.  Great.  But the second most common language is Spanish.  Also great.  Neither language is inherently superior to the other linguistically.  Neither language is inherently superior culturally. Many people who are English-Spanish bilingual use one language at work, another at home, even mix the two languages on the fly casually.  The latter happens all the time in bilingual places across the world. I wish I could seamlessly flow between two languages!

The recognition that English isn't the sole or privileged language in the US acknowledges that the US is a diverse country made of of a whole slew of backgrounds. One of the ways to recognize this is to give anybody the option to express themselves language-wise in at least the two most common languages spoken in the USA.  English is just one way of language expression.  Any American is free to express themselves that way if they so choose.  But they could also choose Spanish even if they are fluent in English. There should be no stigma either way.

Consider the following statements and their pertinence to civil rights. First, one might say "English should be the official language of the USA".  Another person might say "ham radio tests must be in English because English is a superior language for technical assessment".  A third person might say "English proficiency is a sign of intelligence."  The first assertion contradicts civil rights. The second assertion is false statistically and experientially. The third assertion is plainly bigoted.  Recognition of other cultures and freedom of expression isn't a violation of civil rights.  Look at the many multilingual countries around the world and their civil rights and language policy.

 73 Jordan AB2T/VA3AIT
     
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 02:43:37 AM by Jordan » Logged
N2EY
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Posts: 3895




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« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2010, 03:37:27 AM »

A majority of Americans speak English as their native or sole language.  Great.  But the second most common language is Spanish.  Also great.  Neither language is inherently superior to the other linguistically.  Neither language is inherently superior culturally.

English and Spanish aren't even all that different in grammar, sentence structure, and some vocabulary. Same alphabet, just a few accent marks to learn.

All true - but not the issue.

The recognition that English isn't the sole or privileged language in the US acknowledges that the US is a diverse country made of of a whole slew of backgrounds. One of the ways to recognize this is to give anybody the option to express themselves language-wise in at least the two most common languages spoken in the USA.

But why stop at two languages?

I don't know what the third-most-common language is in the USA. Let's assume it's Italian, which is even closer to Spanish. Why not have tests available in Italian? Or in the fourth-most-common language, whatever it is (Japanese)?

It's not about intelligence or some imagined form of superiority; it's about standardization and cost control. An amateur radio license isn't a right; it's a privilege, too. People have the right of equal access (meaning everybody has the same requirements) not the right of equal result (meaning everybody gets a license). 

It's not too much to ask that anyone who wants a US amateur radio license have at least some understanding of how to read and write English. Accomodations for the disabled (such as Braille or having the exam done orally) are OK because a blind person cannot learn to see, but a person who doesn't speak English can learn the language at least well enough to pass the tests.

IOW, basic English literacy should be a requirement.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2814




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« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2010, 02:33:15 PM »

Είναι όλα Ελληνικά για μένα
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
AB2T
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Posts: 246




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« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2010, 03:08:38 PM »

Είναι όλα Ελληνικά για μένα

Yes, it's all quite Greek to me. ἔστι ἀγνοεῖν ἀμουσολογία ὅταν ξενοφωνία (that is the best rendering I can give in Ancient Greek of the Modern Greek you supplied).  The ancient Greeks considered any language that was not Greek "barbaric" and not worth studying or speaking.  A very xenophobic people by modern standards.


« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 03:52:58 PM by Jordan » Logged
KM3K
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Posts: 323




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« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2010, 04:16:52 PM »

Nigdy nie myślałem o sobie jako barbarzyńskie istoty.

Poważnie jednak mówiąc, których języków należy wybrać?
Na pewno wszystkie rodzime języki Indian należy na liście.

73  ג 'רום KM3K
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2814




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« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2010, 04:30:40 PM »

Είναι όλα Ελληνικά για μένα
Yes, it's all quite Greek to me. ἔστι ἀγνοεῖν ἀμουσολογία ὅταν ξενοφωνία (that is the best rendering I can give in Ancient Greek of the Modern Greek you supplied).  The ancient Greeks considered any language that was not Greek "barbaric" and not worth studying or speaking.  A very xenophobic people by modern standards.

But understandable, since "xenophobic" comes  from two Greek roots...
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
K7KBN
Member

Posts: 2814




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« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2010, 04:37:05 PM »

Nigdy nie myślałem o sobie jako barbarzyńskie istoty.

Poważnie jednak mówiąc, których języków należy wybrać?
Na pewno wszystkie rodzime języki Indian należy na liście.

73  ג 'רום KM3K

שניהם פולנית, עברית, ג 'רום! מרשים!
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
KM3K
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Posts: 323




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« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2010, 06:50:07 PM »

To K7KBN,

Danke schön  Smiley

73 Jerry KM3K

PS. may be time to put this diversion to rest and get back to normal business.
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WB2WIK
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Posts: 20612




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« Reply #69 on: July 31, 2010, 08:04:15 PM »

I dunno y anione wud need to now abot all this litrasy stuff.  Maks no sens to me.
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KG4RUL
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Posts: 2737


WWW

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« Reply #70 on: August 12, 2010, 08:22:25 AM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100811/od_yblog_upshot/behold-americas-educational-system-captured-in-a-single-photograph

Enough said.
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W7ARX
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Posts: 455




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« Reply #71 on: August 12, 2010, 09:49:31 AM »

My wife teaches at a small private university; I taught full-time at a public community college for 24 years.  We're shocked by the declining literacy of incoming freshmen.  High school standards apparently aren't what they used to be.  

That is sad indeed......I never heered of such a thing.. (LOL)
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AI8O
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Posts: 20


WWW

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« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2010, 06:53:57 PM »

Basic Literacy is required.
It's just not explicitly stated.
You have to read the questions on an exam to answer them.
The requirement for basic literacy is subsummed in the required method for taking the test.

The King's English is not American.

Which accent would you decree to be the correct one?

New York (niue Yawk), New Jersey ( new Joisey),Ebonics, Redneck, Valley girl, Minnesota(EH?), Cincinnati Dutch,Southern (Y'all),  spanglish?   Wink
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