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Author Topic: KJ4TOF Ripped Me Off....  (Read 18481 times)
W9BKR
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Posts: 360




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« on: August 04, 2010, 03:43:30 PM »

I had a "cashiers" check sent to me by this individual, Billy J. Stone, cashed it on 7/23 and now on 8/4, the funds are being pulled from my account because he cancelled the check after the fact (after the item was sent to him and rcvd). I am trying to follow up with my bank fraud division, and his as well along with USPS Mail Fraud.

I have sent him e-mails to reconcile this issue...will wait and see what this character does. Have all the e-mails, etc.

Beware for now....I am out $85 with this individual.
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W9BKR
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 01:29:55 PM »

Gave this individual all kinds of opportunities to resolve this issue.  No response, no calls, nothing. So, I suspect his behavior speaks loud enough.

I trusted this character,...what a fool I was..no phone number provided, but I am following up legally thru some channels.
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W9BKR
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2010, 08:55:35 AM »

Well, 8/8: No Funds, no responses from "Billy" as to what he did or why...

He was paid for goods sent, rcvd.  

Check was issues 7/12 and according to his bank, was canceled the same day, before he notified me he had mailed it.

Evidently, this is slick. He stated he mailed a cashiers check, yet, cancelled it the same day.  He tells him bank he "lost" it, fills out the avidavid and then gets his money back, all the while, a bogus, check is in route to the seller.

Wasn't aware a cashier's check could be canceled if you don't have the original because even on the back it plainly states, "cannot stop payment unless lost, stolen or destroyed", which is correct, but you have to wait a period of time.  Evidently, this bank doesn't handle cashiers checks the same way. 

So who knows what he has to make up in order to steal the funds back after the check was was shipped. Perhaps that is why he was upset when I told him I would have to hold it for 3 days.  He knew I would find out before I sent the item that the check was bad perhaps.  Tsk, tsk..

Sad this hobby has such bad apples.  You read about it and then it happens to you....

I am out of the funds, and the hardware, but I am pursuing it legally now thru my bank and his fraud department. Doubt I will see the money, but doing what I can to do the right thing.  He obviously has done nothing to date but sit back and laughed at a successful rip off.  It catches up eventually, perhaps not for me, but maybe the next scam.  Hopefully, you will all read and take heed with this bad apple.  I only post the facts as I have them. He has had plenty of messages requesting resolution, but obviously, he doesn't answer them or contact me which is pretty typical of the scammers you read about on teh forums.  Beware, and avoid.

Sad indeed.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 09:14:12 AM by Chris Hays » Logged
KE4DRN
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Posts: 3714




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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2010, 07:16:42 PM »

hi

sounds like he sent a standard bank money order instead of a cashier's check.

your post will help others to avoid this bad guy.

73 james
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W9BKR
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Posts: 360




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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2010, 10:57:02 AM »

Science fiction novel with this character:


Read on (had to cut it down, getting to lenghty):

Summary of events:  You can decide what you can make of his inconsistencies and back tracking.  There is more, but I don’t want to make this a novel.

7/9:  I'll have you a M.O. on its way tomorrow.
 
7/12:  I just came from my credit union where I picked up a cashier’s check  (Note:  States  Money order and now cashier’s check)

7/12:  Thanks and I'll go ahead and get the check in the mail.

(Per his Bank, he cancelled the check on 7/12:  Not sure how that was accomplished).

7/16:  I put the check in the mail Monday (7/12) (Actual post mark was 7/15 not 7/12)

7/17:  I inquired about his “7/12 mailing” as mail doesn’t take that long to get here.  He responded was “I do have the option to do a third part xfer directly to your bank, but that'd require you to give me you account and routing number” Ever encounter anyone wanting to do that for such a small sum of money?  Possibly, if from Nigeria.

I don’t think so.  BIG RED FLAG

7/19: He tells me that he rcvd the cashier’s check back: “I got it back today "return to sender, No such Number”  (Of course, the envelope I eventually rcvd  had no such marks/annotations on it and it was postmarked 7/16).

7/20:  Tells me he is “re-sending” the payment, this time:   I'll go with fedex or ups. I'll have it in the mail to you today.” (UPS and FED EX don’t use the USPS system). What happened with Fed Ex or UPS)?

So far , after nearly 10 days, I have rcvd nothing yet from this character.

7/20:  Now, he tells me he sent if UPS:  I took it to the UPS store (didn’t say, I went back to the Post Office), and mailed it. (Getting more confusing:  Also note he is actually responding because he wants the item – after the scam, all e-mail stops completely).

Note; Nothing ever came UPS.
It was mailed 7/15-7/16.  Another of many contradictions (of course I give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he just can’t keep acronyms straight).


7/22:   “Any signs of the check yet? Mailed it Monday?”
First it was mailed, then UPS’d , and now back to mailed.   All this based upon him supposedly mailing it 7/12 and then again on 7/16.  Mail is slow, but not this slow for less than 500 miles.

7/22:  Rcvd it 7/22:  (Cashed it on 7/23):  “That check is a cashier’s check written on a credit union. Why do you feel like you need to wait for it to clear (a couple of days)? They took the money out of my account before typing it up for me. That's the whole idea of that type of check.”

Yet, he had knowingly stopped payment (how, I have no idea) knowing a worthless piece of paper being sent to me).

Individuals that do this sort of thing never see that they are in the wrong or have done anything wrong.  They try to present a scenario that is something other then what can be substantiated and rant on about “in the mail”, “lost”, etc. excuses when the whole time, his bank is telling me he canceled the payment almost as soon as he sent it and then lied about it from then on.  So who knows.

Of course, when I went back to him on 8/4 and repeatedly with e-mails, no responses then on about why his check bounced and what he was doing to resolve this issue.  Just snide remarks and jokes about the issue.

I know for some, $85 isn’t a lot of money, but it is money.  I have been in contact with his Bank’s Security Dept, the Pensacola Police Dept (Internet Fraud Division) and the local law enforcement there near his QTH about internet fraud, etc.  Doubt I will see this money, but at least I can try and keep him from ripping someone off of more money.  I suspect he has emotional or psychiatric issues.  Who knows.  Just beware. You see the scenario presented above, lots of mis-information, back tracking, incorrect information, etc.  None of this reads like a “simple mistake” or “error”.  Since he has taken no action to respond to inquiries, I am forced to post warnings and provide the details.  I have all e-mail traffic to support my info and info from his bank as well.  If he does the right thing, I can amend this, but the warning should be that, BEWARE. 
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W0DLM
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Posts: 75




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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 12:19:22 PM »

Individuals that do this sort of thing never see that they are in the wrong...
I have no doubt that he knows that he is in the wrong.   He knows that he is cheating you, and it is probably what he planned right from the start.  Just because he keeps shining you on, making one excuse after another, doesn't mean that he doesn't know exactly what he is doing.  This is just the way scammers operate.

The lesson here for others is that until you have the cash in hand you haven't got squat.  A "cashiers check" is often used by scammers because they know that it looks and sounds very official, and a lot of people think that it is somehow guaranteed money.  In fact, it is no better than any personal check, and should be treated like one.  Don't send the item until the check has cleared and the money is in your account.

And if they send you a cashiers check for more than the amount, and ask you to send the difference back to them, that is a GUARANTEED scam!
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W9BKR
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Posts: 360




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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 02:00:20 PM »

Exactly!  I suspect this individual has behavioral problems as a DR friend of mine talked of this at Church recently.   This guy seems to indicate he is taking care of it, but then comes back with inane comments, remarks etc that indicate totally the opposite.  He knew what he was doing when it did it, and questions "how did my check bounce".  That isn't for me to explain to him what I found he did, he can check with his bank (which I requested he do over weeks ago) and he hasn't to date. They confirmed they haven't heard from him.  He even taunts that "should he expect the FBI to show up at his door".  I told him that he might not know who may show up, or when.  It always catches up to liars and thieves like these.  Sad that it affected my friend that he wants to come up with the money to pay be back and be done with amateur radio if this is what to expect (not to mention the nonsense on some of the forums, on the bands, etc).  I am working to convince him to stick with it.  He is this far already.   I want him to get at least on 2 meters so we can chat and then motivate him for HF, etc.

With bad apples like Billy J Stone out of Cantonment Florida, it certainly does paint a bad picture of some of the likes in this hobby. Albeit a small percentage, it does seem to be growing IMHO.

From what he has written, etc., in his e-mail traffic should have gotten my attention more to just send his mailing back and told him to move on.  I do believe this individual has personality disorders or something because he continually contradicts himself and seems to not understand his disability or something. 

I feel for his other partner Lee.  I wonder if they know what he is doing and how it will pull them down as well.  Sad indeed.

At least my conscience is clear and I can sleep at nights.  I always have and continue to do the right thing in any transaction.  Sad this clown is so low to steal something as small as this amount and be willing to tarnish his rep and character which speaks volumes....

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W9BKR
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Posts: 360




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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 06:48:06 PM »

As another example of asking him to reconcile the issue which he keeps denying which he bank contradicts, I get a PM off QRZ like "My God, what are you on?"

I am forwarding the information I have to that banks fraud department, security deparment and the President of Navy Fed Credit Union. What they do with it, is up to them.  I wash my hands of the filth of this scum.  I know I won't see that money.

The bottom line is whatever method he used to pay for this item, he knew full well that he voided the payment before it got here, duped me of the article and then lied continually about having paid for it when his own bank openly stated he had voided the payment after he had mailed it the next day.  All the while, lying about it continually.

So, just beware with this thief. Don't do business with him and avoid any of his posting to offer to purchase or sell you something...

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W9BKR
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2010, 08:46:02 AM »

Minor update:

I contacted the Pensacola Police Dept (Internet Fraud) and they may be stopping by to chat with this guy. Who knows.  People will tell you anything. 

Anyway, latest of this clown's dribble he has sent me in the past day:

"This is my last acknowledgment of you.  Be advised: when your bull #### stops, you'll be paid. simple enough?"


So again, it is obvious this clown understood all along what he did, and perhaps the heat or attention is getting to him.  Irregardless. I just hope no one gets scammed in the future by this jerk.

I sincerely believe he has serious behavioral/emotional issues or possibly personality problems that need to be addressed.

I am anticipating reading about him at some future date with an escalated scam on someone else.  I sincerely hope not.

Sad a grown adult would be so willing to commit fraud over such an amount of $. 
Not worth it but it will catch up.

His bank's fraud and security depts have been given all the info to investigate.   Clearly indicates deliberate and intentional fraud.  Up to them now.  Again, doubt they will come thru, but following another option.

Beware guys/gals.  All I can say.  Avoid like poison ivy.


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AG6WT
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Posts: 436




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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2010, 02:47:11 PM »

This is why I like using Paypal.

Until I receive a payment online, I don't consider the item sold and I will still consider offers. This way I don't get the run around of  "oh, the check is in the mail". I never ship until I have the money.

Also, it's much harder for a scammer to get his money back. For a scammer to get their money back they have to file a complaint with Paypal and Paypal gives you a chance to respond.

Next best thing is a Money Order because they are like cash. It's very hard for the person sending the M.O. to get their cash back. The best they can do is file a claim that they lost it and wait 30 days. If it's cashed before then, the scammer is S.O.L.

I'll never take checks, too many ways to commit fraud.

And of course if it's a local sale, it's cash only.

Sounds like you saw some red flags in your emails before you shipped the item. One red flag is enough for me to cancel a sale.
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W9BKR
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Posts: 360




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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2010, 07:09:50 PM »

Hi Ray...BTW hope you got the tracking info...

Yeah, he is pathetic....I feel some pity for him in one respect and in others, no...I should have yielded to my common sense and regardless how he felt about me holding his scrap of paper, I should have anyway..trust was broken there afterwards...what an idiot I was....

He even suggested at one point I give him my bank routing number, etc. and he would "wire" me the funds...I have never had anyone in all my years even remotely go down that road...man, that is scarey...to think...

Anyway, catch you later Ray and thanks again..take care..

73 and GB

Chris
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W9BKR
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Posts: 360




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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2010, 11:26:03 AM »

Still waiting for my money....
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KD8HMO
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2010, 06:05:03 PM »

This is why I wont accept anything but a US Post Office money order or bank money order or cashiers check. If you have cash to buy, then you can go to the post office and get a money order. Same for a bank. No excuses... Cash the money order or bank draft before shipping the item.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 06:15:55 PM by Richard » Logged
W9BKR
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Posts: 360




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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2010, 06:09:25 AM »

Did just that, but for some unexlplaing ability, he managed to cancel the cashier's check (too long to write about here) while it was in route to me.  Of course, it a a good check, exccept the funds were pulled out of it while in route.  I have sent letters to the bank fraud depart, funds dispersement depart, inquiring how a bank can do this without the set passage of time required with 99.9% of other banks with cashiers check.

I can only state what they told me, repeatedly, and still don't undertand it. 

Then again, he knew this all along.  That is the really sad part. I suspect furture scams escalating to larger amounts of funds...

On my list to avoid in the future.  He stated if I didn't post anything additional about this, I would see the money...Hi.  What, with another bad check?  Don't think so. Just blowing smoke as he has all along. Just avoid him..period.
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W9BKR
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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2010, 11:24:42 AM »

You can keep posting on QRZ like nothing happened, but I am still awaiting for the money you stole.  Mailing out my documentation Monday.  Recommend you start acting like a man...if that is possible.
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