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Author Topic: Question: Hustler 5-Band Trap vertical and aluminum gutters . . .  (Read 2551 times)
KK7PW
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« on: October 02, 2010, 07:02:18 PM »

Greetings from West Seattle.

I have a Hustler 5BTV (fed by a classic Ten-Tec Omni-D) and am thinking about making my aluminum gutters part of the counterpoise.  I already use my kiwi trellis (three braided cable supports of 20') as part of the counterpoise.

Any thoughts out there about pros and cons?  I believe that I could gain some terrific performance. 

Thanks for any advice.

Best 73,

Jonathan, KK7PW
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N3OX
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 09:43:56 AM »

Quote
Any thoughts out there about pros and cons?  I believe that I could gain some terrific performance. 

The best counterpoise for an elevated vertical like yours is a resonant radial system with a at least a couple 1/4 wave radials per band, arranged symmetrically around the base of the antenna.  It's also a good idea to put a good choke on the feedline  see here:http://www.w8ji.com/ground_plane_verticals.htm .   Tying random stuff into the "counterpoise" system is pretty likely to make other stuff act as an active radiator, which, believe it or not, is usually not what you want.  You especially don't want it when it's mounted on your house  If your downspouts have a lot of RF current on them, and they pass  near noisy stuff inside, you'll get more noise on the bands.

If you think you need more counterpoise, install a proper one. 

http://www.dxengineering.com/TechArticles.asp?ID={A46FA56A-2E82-4AF9-9427-6592FC5CFCB7}

That's what will give you more performance if you have a poor counterpoise.  "A bunch of random metal things" can work in a pinch as part of an antenna, like if you can't do anything else.  But if you have the option to use whatever you want for a counterpoise for your 5BTV, a bunch of tuned radials is the way to go.  If you already have 1/4 wave radials, and are just thinking of putting in the gutters to make it work better, don't.  It won't.  You'll just be wrapping part of your antenna more intimately around your house, which is not a good thing.



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73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
KK7PW
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 09:52:18 AM »

Thanks, Dan!  Much appreciated!!

Yes, I aim to improve my radial apron, though thought it might be fun to try the gutters.  Smiley

Thanks again and best 73.

de KK7PW
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N5YPJ
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 06:59:00 PM »

I'm with Dan on leaving the radials out of the ground installation. The joints between the sections would need to be bonded to assure continuity and keep a poor connection from creating noise in your receive; a bad joint on transmit could be even worse causes lots of problems. My experience with my 6BTV has been that metal in the near field can affect antenna resonance, who knows what issues the gutters might create. Your best avenue is to get to at least 32 radials at least 26 ft (the height of the antenna) fanned out around the base as much as possible, more radials better longer radials better.

I once tried using my mobile home's aluminum skin as a ground plane and it was noisy as well as unreliable in that the siding wasn't bonded besides contracting and expanding throughout the day as the sun heated the metal then it cooled.

This antenna is a great performer for the money and minimal trouble in installing it - hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoyed mine! 73
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N2CJ
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 07:14:20 PM »

For an elevated installation of a BTV series vertical, 2 to 4 tuned radials per band are optimal. Random length radials bring nothing to the equation and could in fact be counterproductive.

I use a 6BTV with 12/17 add-ons and I have a total of 18 tuned radials, with only one radial each on 40 & 80, and the antenna works DX clear around the globe (150+ confirmed). My antenna is mounted above the center of the roof peak and most of the radials are tied off to the gutter brackets, but the antenna is not electrically connected to the gutters.

BTW I think the elevated installation is the way to go with this antenna. I'm not sure why so many guys want to install this thing on the ground. Save the radial field for the base of your 160M inv ell.
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KQ6Q
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 07:41:53 PM »

Cut some radials to the right lengths,and run them IN the gutters. There will be capacitive coupling to the gutters, but you'll have some resonant lengths already. The connections between the various sections of gutters will always be iffy, but your wire radials will be one piece for their whole length....
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