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Author Topic: How clean is your CW sending? Do you know how well your sending is?  (Read 6548 times)
N2RRA
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2010, 02:40:07 PM »

"Reversing the dit/dahs on the keyer would drive me absolutely buggy" 

Stan K9IUQ

Ahhhh! So that's why!

I do have an old timer bud that was able to reverse the polarity on the bug so it is possible, but I guess not practical on a bug.

M0JHA, Billy

It did seem to me natural as well so all my Vibroplex's, Bencher and begali is set for reverse, but I've grown more fond of my Artesanas straight key from Spain. Easy for me to do 15wpm and even pretty close to 20wpm damn well. Only thing is the fist becomes very painful after a good long QSO. That's where electronic key comes in!

73!
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NK6Q
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2010, 05:36:11 PM »

Oh man, I just had a day of QSO's with some really bad fists.  First one had run-on characters, no spacing between letters.  Another ham was spraying dits all over the place. B's were coming off as 6's, L's were AS's, and worse.  I could barely figure out what the guy was trying to say.

What a relief when I hear someone sending clean CW!
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K7KBN
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2010, 05:41:43 PM »

Vibroplex has made left-handed bugs for a whole bunch of years, I believe.

When I was in the Navy, I used a standard Presentation model (my own).  The guy who'd usually relieve me from watch was a southpaw and a pretty good woodworker.  He built a little "bridge" that fit over the base of the bug.  He'd move the bug to the left side of the operating position backwards, so the paddle was away from him.  He'd then send dits with his left thumb, dahs with his left fingers, quite competently.  He got his "Speed Key Ticket" from the Navy with that exact setup:  my bug, his bridge.  
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
N2RRA
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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 06:24:42 PM »

Oh man, I just had a day of QSO's with some really bad fists.  First one had run-on characters, no spacing between letters.  Another ham was spraying dits all over the place. B's were coming off as 6's, L's were AS's, and worse.  I could barely figure out what the guy was trying to say.

What a relief when I hear someone sending clean CW!

This is why I started this thread!

I would like some of these operators to realize all though we give them credit for attemtping CW and being some what successfull at it learning morse doesn't stop after they memorized the morse alphabet. Sending CW with cleanliness becomes an art to learn. In return others start commenting on how well your fist is.

It sure makes me feel good when someone knows I'm running a straight key and comment like "Man...your Fist is great" like today.

Tnx too KD7H, or I think it was W4SAA! Maybe both of them said it!  Grin

 
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KE7WAV
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« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2010, 06:43:46 PM »

I'll bite on this on too.  I wanted to check my fist on the old straight key so I setup a sked with a buddy and had an hour+ ragchew.  I recorded the whole thing and then waited a couple of weeks.  I learned a few weakness and it has helped me pace myself and send better. 

I often times tap my foot to keep time while sending to keep a steady beat just like I do when I am playing my cornet, guitar, or ukulele.  That has been a great help to me to keep good clean code. 

After a QSO with someone who struggles keeping a clean fist I have sometimes received QSL cards from some older ops who are struggling with shaking hands and other ailments, and I appreciate their efforts to stay in the game and keep active even though it is hard.  They may be tough to copy but they are worth the time for the QSO--sloppy fist and all.

73 de KE7WAV
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N2EY
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2010, 04:25:14 AM »

In particular, throwing apostrophes at plurals where no possessive is intended, inappropriate capitalizations, treating the word "ham" as an acronym, glaring grammatical errors, awkward sentence construction, spelling errors (even with spell check available!), omitting or substituting inappropriate words (Do you know how well (sic) your sending is?), sentence fragments, and the inability to distinguish they’re from there from their

....

This message meant only to raise awareness and increase enjoyment of all parties participating in the forum, of course.  Not intended to insult anyone or discourage new posters. Wink

Thank you, sir! That was worth repeating.

73 de Jim, N2EY

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K5PSH
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2010, 08:15:48 AM »

good sending is a skill--the same skill (essentially) needed for playing a musical instrument--invest a bit of time practicing--follow good instruction that can be found on most CW pages--

the investment of time for practice just can't be avoided--

73

jerry-----k5psh
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N2RRA
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2010, 01:42:56 PM »

good sending is a skill--the same skill (essentially) needed for playing a musical instrument--invest a bit of time practicing--follow good instruction that can be found on most CW pages--

the investment of time for practice just can't be avoided--

73

jerry-----k5psh

Quite right Jerry! Keep it plain and simple. Practice Practice Practice.
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KC8Y
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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2010, 03:52:49 PM »

I totally agree with all the comments about CW;
BUT I have a physical/mental disability...I've been licensed for 40+ years and have enjoyed the radio hobby...Because of my disability, I NO longer can perform CW (or phone) physically & mentally...The best I'm able to do now is keyboard-CW, PSK31 & SSTV...

I work 40-6 meter bands...Hope to meet you online...

KC8Y, Ken
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K9IUQ
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2010, 05:51:46 PM »

I NO longer can perform CW (or phone) physically & mentally...The best I'm able to do now is keyboard-CW,
KC8Y, Ken

Keyboard sending IS the best. Fact= If a computer can not copy you sending cw, then your CW sending needs work..

By using a keyboard you are sending perfect code which everyone should be able to copy easily. The purists and oldtimer hardcores will never agree with this. But it is the truth. Computers SEND Cw much better than humans can. Copying cw, now that is a different story, UNLESS your computer is copying someone who is using a keyboard..

Stan K9IUQ
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N2RRA
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2010, 06:47:11 PM »

I NO longer can perform CW (or phone) physically & mentally...The best I'm able to do now is keyboard's,
KC8Y, Ken

Keyboard sending IS the best. Fact= If a computer can not copy you sending cw, then your CW sending needs work..

By using a keyboard you are sending perfect code which everyone should be able to copy easily. The purists and oldtimer hardcores will never agree with this. But it is the truth. Computers SEND Cw much better than humans can. Copying cw, now that is a different story, UNLESS your computer is copying someone who is using a keyboard..

Stan K9IUQ

They are some humans than can literally send faster Morse keying messages than a human can type. So I would have to disagree. Not to mention miss type errors.

I'm glad that keyboards help Hams with disability ailments, but I guess what I would like to hear are new Hams with out ailments not looking to take the easy route and finding themselves Morse key illiterate.

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N4IAG
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2010, 07:19:02 PM »

Keyboard sending IS the best. Fact= If a computer can not copy you sending cw, then your CW sending needs work..

By using a keyboard you are sending perfect code which everyone should be able to copy easily. The purists and oldtimer hardcores will never agree with this. But it is the truth. Computers SEND Cw much better than humans can. Copying cw, now that is a different story, UNLESS your computer is copying someone who is using a keyboard..

Stan K9IUQ

I have to disagree. Unless you have a handicap and god bless those who get on the air with one, I don't see the point of keyboard cw. Why not just use the digital modes or instant messenger? It's like going fishin' with dynamite, it gets the job done but takes the fun and skill out of it. Just my opinion.

I enjoy hearing well sent code, I like the swing of a good fist. What I don't enjoy is the ham that runs everything together and doesn't even realize that he's sending uncopyable code. I'm not talking about mistakes or misspelled words, I'm talking about literally not putting any spaces between characters or words. I'm certainly no cw expert and envy those who are, but I know good code when I hear it and some of it isn't pretty.


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I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
KE4JOY
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« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2010, 07:16:54 AM »

Forgive my ignorance but what is 'keyboard sending' ?

How does it work?

I'm assuming some sort of interface between the rig and the computer.

Can it be done with boat anchor rigs?
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N2RRA
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« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2010, 09:52:55 AM »

Forgive my ignorance but what is 'keyboard sending' ?

How does it work?

I'm assuming some sort of interface between the rig and the computer.

Can it be done with boat anchor rigs?

It's simply the use of a P.C. keyboard to send CW. How it's done is the use of an interface between the radio and computer along with software. Yes! you can use a boat anchor rig as well as long as you can connect an interface between the radio and P.C.

I don't think anyone here means to undermine the use of a keyboard if it sounds like that. We simply are trying to help others to realize their sending may need to improve for enjoyment for all as well as improve their skill level. There is a sort of skill and art to sending CW via a Morse key and should be done correctly if a person is going to partake. Keyboard are an easy outlet for those with ailments, but I think an easy out for those who are just lazy to learn via a Morse key.

You can make just as many errors and can be a grueling slow conversation if the operator cant type for crap. So a keyboard isn't quite the answer all though some may make it seem that way. Some people leave out the variables in keyboards and the operators typing experience.

The other message is that you can not replace the importance of a Morse Key. If your keyboard goes out, or even your computer what good is it. Now, if you never experienced, or improved on your Morse Key skill level your stuck with nothing. Let alone the importance to learn the Morse alphabet. Technology can be a crutch so the importance in the art of CW is always full proof!

73!
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W8MW
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« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2010, 10:48:40 AM »

Keyboard sending gets a lot of criticism from those who believe you absolutely must manually form the code characters on a key, bug or paddle.  Never mind two of these use semi-automation for character formation.  So to that way of thinking a little bit of automation is okay but the full automation of a keyboard stroke is against all that's pure and good in amateur radio.   

I've been a CW op for 48 years and have a different point of view.  I'll go for whatever device lets me send the cleanest code, with the fewest errors, as fast as I can handle a QSO.  Stan, K9IUQ, your comment is dead on accurate and I like the way you expressed it.  When the goal is to generate the absolute best quality morse code transmissions, I'll go for the keyboard every time. 

The really fast operators (QRQ) all use keyboards to achieve speeds beyond the capability of any other sending device.   It's ironic that the most proficient code operators, these folks running their keyboards at 50 to 80+ wpm  and copying by ear, are frequently labeled as not being "real CW operators".  Hey, they're the best in the world but that doesn't matter to someone blindly committed to his belief system.

There are exceptions to most everything and I'm open to the possibility that some people might not be able to type accurately.  If that's the case, garbage in, garbage out and those operators may need to refer to the ancient morse code sending remedy known as QLF. 

Where I do tend to agree with the so called purists is in copying code.  IMO, using a video display to copy code along with a keyboard to send it is inappropriate use of the CW mode.  Those ops would be much better off using another mode and I think they'd be better citizens in the amateur community since their CW transmissions undoubtedly contain punctuations and screen layouts that don't translate well for code operators copying by ear.

One final point and I'll shut up.  Back when FCC was still administering code tests they required the applicant to receive and send at whatever speed was attached to the license class.  They did this for decades until eventually they eliminated the sending requirement.  They determined that someone who can copy code has the capacity to send it.   If you have learned the code I'll bet you can tap a finger right now on your desk and formulate a word in morse code.  If you can, there's all the proof you need that in a worst case scenario where the world depends on you sending by tapping two pieces of wire together, you will make us all proud.  Meantime feel free to use your keyboard.       
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